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> ...legally there's no reason why a phone or laptop should be immune to search while suitcases and briefcases aren't. Of course there is. My suitcase has my c

> ...legally there's no reason why a phone or laptop should be immune to search while suitcases and briefcases aren't. Of course there is. My suitcase has my clothes, toiletries, and maybe a book to read when I get to my destination. My electronic device has a list of everyone I correspond with, what we type to each other, all the websites I visit both at home and on the go (Firefox Sync), everywhere I've traveled with that device since I got it, every destination I've searched for since I got it, my home WiFi SSID and password, the SSID/password of any place I've been allowed to connect including work, access to every file in every cloud storage service I use, username/password to all the VPS and dedicated servers I manage for myself and for all my clients, remote access to my home network and my work network, and so on. The scope of my suitcase is limited to what I'm wearing and what I'm reading on my trip. The scope of my mobile device is a huge chunk of my entire life. Do you get the difference now?

leereeves 10y ago
In 1973, your suitcase might have contained a list of all your contacts, love letters from your mistress, maps, business papers, a diary. Were any of those ever forbidden from searches?
- morganvachon 10y ago
  Are you seriously arguing that we should not expect any privacy at all just because where people store their information has evolved over the past half century? In 1973 and in 2017 your suitcase could contain a gun. searching and backing up the contents of your cellphone has nothing to do with preventing a weapon coming on board. There is a legitimate reason to search luggage, there is absolutely no reason to know the intimate contents of someone's device at the border. At most, x-ray the device to ensure it's not a bomb, otherwise stay the fuck out of my personal business.
  - leereeves 10y ago
    I'm arguing that we shouldn't expect more privacy simply because we've started storing our secrets electronically instead of on paper. Even in 1973 people had private info they didn't want the government to see, yet the Court decided other concerns overrode the Fourth Amendment.
    - morganvachon 10y ago
      But by your own words, access to private info was granted back then only because of where we had to store it while traveling. We now store our information on encrypted supercomputers that fit in our pockets instead of in our luggage, open for all to see. If you truly feel we don't deserve and shouldn't expect privacy, I hereby demand that you immediately post your entire medical history, SSN, full contact list, passwords for all of your social media accounts, full text of every email and sms conversation you've ever had, your full browser history (porn and all), and links to every file in your cloud storage services, all to this public thread for everyone to see. Go ahead, I'm waiting. You have nothing to hide, right? You see, it's not about expecting more privacy, it's about expecting them to fully respect the privacy we already enjoy when sitting at home.
      - leereeves 10y ago
        > it's about expecting them to fully respect the privacy we already enjoy when sitting at home. That's the point. We don't, and that's not new. The courts decided long ago that we don't enjoy the same privacy when crossing borders that we enjoy when sitting at home. Whether the information is written on paper or stored on encrypted supercomputers is, legally, irrelevant.
        morganvachon 10y ago
        So you're saying the law should never, ever change despite that technology changes and improves? That what was good enough for the 1970s is good enough for today? Because that's a pound of bullshit that I find hard to swallow. I still can't understand why you desire zero privacy at the border. Why would any citizen applaud the government for invading their privacy just to entertain security theater? The contents of my phone have zero bearing on whether I'm bringing a gun on a plane. You don't foil a terror plot at the TSA checkpoint by browsing someone's phone contents.
erikpukinskis 10y ago
> My electronic device has a list of everyone I correspond with, what we type to each other, all the websites I visit Maybe that's a problem we should solve.
- morganvachon 10y ago
  Maybe, but until it is solved, we can and should encrypt all our devices against any intruder, whether it's our own government or criminals.

leereeves 10y ago

In 1973, your suitcase might have contained a list of all your contacts, love letters from your mistress, maps, business papers, a diary. Were any of those ever forbidden from searches?

morganvachon 10y ago
Are you seriously arguing that we should not expect any privacy at all just because where people store their information has evolved over the past half century? In 1973 and in 2017 your suitcase could contain a gun. searching and backing up the contents of your cellphone has nothing to do with preventing a weapon coming on board. There is a legitimate reason to search luggage, there is absolutely no reason to know the intimate contents of someone's device at the border. At most, x-ray the device to ensure it's not a bomb, otherwise stay the fuck out of my personal business.
- leereeves 10y ago
  I'm arguing that we shouldn't expect more privacy simply because we've started storing our secrets electronically instead of on paper. Even in 1973 people had private info they didn't want the government to see, yet the Court decided other concerns overrode the Fourth Amendment.
  - morganvachon 10y ago
    But by your own words, access to private info was granted back then only because of where we had to store it while traveling. We now store our information on encrypted supercomputers that fit in our pockets instead of in our luggage, open for all to see. If you truly feel we don't deserve and shouldn't expect privacy, I hereby demand that you immediately post your entire medical history, SSN, full contact list, passwords for all of your social media accounts, full text of every email and sms conversation you've ever had, your full browser history (porn and all), and links to every file in your cloud storage services, all to this public thread for everyone to see. Go ahead, I'm waiting. You have nothing to hide, right? You see, it's not about expecting more privacy, it's about expecting them to fully respect the privacy we already enjoy when sitting at home.
    - leereeves 10y ago
      > it's about expecting them to fully respect the privacy we already enjoy when sitting at home. That's the point. We don't, and that's not new. The courts decided long ago that we don't enjoy the same privacy when crossing borders that we enjoy when sitting at home. Whether the information is written on paper or stored on encrypted supercomputers is, legally, irrelevant.
      - morganvachon 10y ago
        So you're saying the law should never, ever change despite that technology changes and improves? That what was good enough for the 1970s is good enough for today? Because that's a pound of bullshit that I find hard to swallow. I still can't understand why you desire zero privacy at the border. Why would any citizen applaud the government for invading their privacy just to entertain security theater? The contents of my phone have zero bearing on whether I'm bringing a gun on a plane. You don't foil a terror plot at the TSA checkpoint by browsing someone's phone contents.

erikpukinskis 10y ago

> My electronic device has a list of everyone I correspond with, what we type to each other, all the websites I visit Maybe that's a problem we should solve.

morganvachon 10y ago
Maybe, but until it is solved, we can and should encrypt all our devices against any intruder, whether it's our own government or criminals.