4 ms·

Wouldn't half of that make it illegal to use for government agencies in many countries? They're one config error away from sending classified data to Microsoft

Wouldn't half of that make it illegal to use for government agencies in many countries? They're one config error away from sending classified data to Microsoft.

AlexeyBrin 10y ago
Pretty sure they sell a different version to governments like the Enterprise or LTSB versions. That being said, I would prefer to be able to block telemetry on my paid Professional version too.
vonmoltke 10y ago
> They're one config error away from sending classified data to Microsoft. No they aren't, because classified data is only handled on isolated networks.
- nebabyte 10y ago
  "It won't phone home, just make sure to keep it offline or it might phone home"?
- wheelerwj 10y ago
  lol, obviously that's not even remotely (get it?) accurate. classified data should only be handled on isolated networks.
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    Handling classified data on an unapproved network is both illegal and a serious security violation in every environment I have worked in. If you have that going on, Windows phoning home is the least of your worries.
- douche 10y ago
  If only that were true... we could have been saved so much tedious wrangling and wikileaking.
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    Those leaks were hand-carried out of networks on removable media. They were physically removed from an isolated network.
- noxToken 10y ago
  Oh wow, TIL! On another note, I have some blinker fluid for sale. Guaranteed to lubricate your turn signal or I'll refund double! It is protocol for classified data to only remain on isolated systems. There are stickers[0] (numbers as standard forms SF-706 through SF-712 if I'm not mistaken) to designate the status of certain media. If you think all of this media stays within its designation (including isolation), you are sorely mistaken. [0]: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2519/4092997449_c37ceb0491_b.jpg https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2519/4092997449_c37ceb0491_b.j...
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    As I said elsewhere, media being attached to an unapproved network is a serious violation. Once that material hits the lower network it is in serious danger of compromise. The behavior of Windows is irrelevant. You could also try making your point without being a snarky asshole.
- pjc50 10y ago
  You may have missed the controversy over this in relation to the US presidential election.
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    See my other reply about physical exfiltration of data. No data was removed over a network link.
    - pjc50 10y ago
      I was referring to the huge controversy over whether Hillary Clinton was storing classified info in regular email (which seems to have resolved as "no" just after the election). The Trump administration seems even more likely to store classified info on regular systems, if they're not passing it directly over to the Russians.
      - vonmoltke 10y ago
        As I said in other places, that is a serious matter and puts such information at serious risk in any circumstances. Whether or not Windows phones home is irrelevant if the people handling classified information are allowed to do so in a careless manner. The problem of classified information being on a system where it could be set back to Microsoft in the manner described in the article is that the information is on that network in the first place, not that Windows might send it to Redmond. The latter just makes cleanup and remediation a bit harder.
hedora 10y ago
It is probably also a violation of your employment agreement, which almost certainly says you can't send trade secrets to random Microsoft engineers. I suspect it violates Sarbanes Oxley and various insider trading statutes, assuming you work at a publicly traded company and have access to non-public information that impacts financial results.
ballenf 10y ago
Not just foreign governments, but what about highly regulated industries like healthcare or finance. They're one config error away from having insider trader information or someone's STD test result in a log file that might live forever and be accessible by dozes if not hundreds of in-house devs tasked with improving parts of Windows. Or, even worse, a 3rd party dev given access to the crash reports for their app so they can fix a problem. I'm sure lots and lots of safeguards in place to prevent the above, but just not collecting the data would be the most comforting approach. All this on top of the fact that you can't disable the Store unless you have an Enterprise license. I am forced to spend money on a product for employees that includes advertisements for games and other huge distractions. Not to mention all the preinstalled stuff for small businesses who don't buy imaged machines. There needs to be an "Windows 10 Actually Pro" level that is below enterprise but is what Pro used to mean.
- ethbro 10y ago
  I would be extremely interested in how they maintain HIPAA compliance in insurance shops. Having worked with universal logging in that context, it was eventually decided to be too much of a risk and we specifically neutered any features that would trigger HIPAA issues out of our product. Customers are going to screw up configs. And when HIPAA charges you with $damages x number of releases, inadvertent logging can add up fast. EDIT: Unless MS got their logging center HIPAA certified and has a special contract they sign with insurance shops. Not impossible, but seems improbable.

Wouldn't half of that make it illegal to use for government agencies in many countries? They're one config error away from sending classified data to Microsoft.

AlexeyBrin 10y ago

Pretty sure they sell a different version to governments like the Enterprise or LTSB versions. That being said, I would prefer to be able to block telemetry on my paid Professional version too.

vonmoltke 10y ago

> They're one config error away from sending classified data to Microsoft. No they aren't, because classified data is only handled on isolated networks.

nebabyte 10y ago
"It won't phone home, just make sure to keep it offline or it might phone home"?
wheelerwj 10y ago
lol, obviously that's not even remotely (get it?) accurate. classified data should only be handled on isolated networks.
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  Handling classified data on an unapproved network is both illegal and a serious security violation in every environment I have worked in. If you have that going on, Windows phoning home is the least of your worries.
douche 10y ago
If only that were true... we could have been saved so much tedious wrangling and wikileaking.
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  Those leaks were hand-carried out of networks on removable media. They were physically removed from an isolated network.
noxToken 10y ago
Oh wow, TIL! On another note, I have some blinker fluid for sale. Guaranteed to lubricate your turn signal or I'll refund double! It is protocol for classified data to only remain on isolated systems. There are stickers[0] (numbers as standard forms SF-706 through SF-712 if I'm not mistaken) to designate the status of certain media. If you think all of this media stays within its designation (including isolation), you are sorely mistaken. [0]: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2519/4092997449_c37ceb0491_b.jpg https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2519/4092997449_c37ceb0491_b.j...
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  As I said elsewhere, media being attached to an unapproved network is a serious violation. Once that material hits the lower network it is in serious danger of compromise. The behavior of Windows is irrelevant. You could also try making your point without being a snarky asshole.
pjc50 10y ago
You may have missed the controversy over this in relation to the US presidential election.
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  See my other reply about physical exfiltration of data. No data was removed over a network link.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    I was referring to the huge controversy over whether Hillary Clinton was storing classified info in regular email (which seems to have resolved as "no" just after the election). The Trump administration seems even more likely to store classified info on regular systems, if they're not passing it directly over to the Russians.
    - vonmoltke 10y ago
      As I said in other places, that is a serious matter and puts such information at serious risk in any circumstances. Whether or not Windows phones home is irrelevant if the people handling classified information are allowed to do so in a careless manner. The problem of classified information being on a system where it could be set back to Microsoft in the manner described in the article is that the information is on that network in the first place, not that Windows might send it to Redmond. The latter just makes cleanup and remediation a bit harder.

hedora 10y ago

It is probably also a violation of your employment agreement, which almost certainly says you can't send trade secrets to random Microsoft engineers. I suspect it violates Sarbanes Oxley and various insider trading statutes, assuming you work at a publicly traded company and have access to non-public information that impacts financial results.

ballenf 10y ago

Not just foreign governments, but what about highly regulated industries like healthcare or finance. They're one config error away from having insider trader information or someone's STD test result in a log file that might live forever and be accessible by dozes if not hundreds of in-house devs tasked with improving parts of Windows. Or, even worse, a 3rd party dev given access to the crash reports for their app so they can fix a problem. I'm sure lots and lots of safeguards in place to prevent the above, but just not collecting the data would be the most comforting approach. All this on top of the fact that you can't disable the Store unless you have an Enterprise license. I am forced to spend money on a product for employees that includes advertisements for games and other huge distractions. Not to mention all the preinstalled stuff for small businesses who don't buy imaged machines. There needs to be an "Windows 10 Actually Pro" level that is below enterprise but is what Pro used to mean.

ethbro 10y ago
I would be extremely interested in how they maintain HIPAA compliance in insurance shops. Having worked with universal logging in that context, it was eventually decided to be too much of a risk and we specifically neutered any features that would trigger HIPAA issues out of our product. Customers are going to screw up configs. And when HIPAA charges you with $damages x number of releases, inadvertent logging can add up fast. EDIT: Unless MS got their logging center HIPAA certified and has a special contract they sign with insurance shops. Not impossible, but seems improbable.