5 ms·

It makes it more painful, but shareholders can sue management and the board if their interests are not represented (see the numerous lawsuits against Yahoo). Or

by crdb 10y ago

It makes it more painful, but shareholders can sue management and the board if their interests are not represented (see the numerous lawsuits against Yahoo). Or in other words "when there's a will there's a way". The real reason they won't replace him is that he built a unicorn from nothing for them, making them very rich and cool in the process (imagine being able to say "I was an early stage investor in Uber"), and by all accounts he has not changed, with Uber being run as a large, efficient company that delivers globally with McDonald's level reliability. Investors also know that what people say and do are very different things. In aggregate, customers will publicly complain and say they will take Lyft, but privately will vote with their wallet (after all who sees what you book), in the same way that publicly they decry energy wastage whilst they take holidays on other continents and drive SUVs to their giant McMansion. I literally cannot think of a company that "won" by promoting its ethical competitiveness, beyond conquering the few percent of the market who can afford to care and care enough to pay a premium. I wonder how many of the #DeleteUber reinstalled it quietly a few weeks later. The public has a very short memory - as a Frenchman I remember being called cheese-eating surrender monkey by the same Brits who today protest against "American imperialism". Governments won't do anything since Uber has tons of positive externalities such as reduction in drunk driving, creation of many part time unskilled jobs and generally electorate happiness in having a reliable and affordable taxi service. They think in terms of net welfare and a few Californians having some issues at work is the least of their worries.

johncolanduoni 10y ago
Group rides are a big market for ride sharing, so even if people only drop Uber for those and still use it privately that could be a big hit.
SNwaiga 10y ago
" customers will publicly complain and say they will take Lyft, but privately will vote with their wallet " Exactly, public opinion doesn't really have any weight anymore.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  Did it ever? That it has sounds mostly like a lie told to the public to placate it.
  - nebabyte 10y ago
    It's sort of the "why it works on paper" for capitalism. Nominally, it plus low barriers to entry/conversion plus anti-anticompetitive mechanisms/trust-busting/etc lead to power structure wherein only businesses which keep their customers happy thrive. In practice, network effects/'brand name' recognition/QA make for a generally reliable customer base from those who don't remain informed or care about your policies/practices or are just used to your product, and that's even before high barriers to entry and other market factors limiting competition to those who engage in the same cost-cutting-oriented models and so end up optimizing the same way. TL;DR: Probably not.
- snowwrestler 10y ago
  That sentence doesn't mean that public opinion doesn't have weight. It means that public opinion is complicated because people can hold more than one idea in their head at once.
taway_1212 10y ago
> making them very rich and cool in the process (imagine being able to say "I was an early stage investor in Uber") Are there really people who think being an investor is cool ?
- Godel_unicode 10y ago
  Interesting question to ask on a site predominantly composed of people who have/want investment, run by a company which has invested in some really cool companies.
- RodericDay 10y ago
  Only in this tech bubble and in cities swallowed by it like SF. If you live somewhere with a healthier balance of careers where not everything is focused around tech, it would come off as incredibly dull and tone-deaf.
  - taway_1212 10y ago
    Yeah, that's my reception as well, that's why I was surprised. Sure, investing requires skill and can get you very rich - but so does running a garbage truck company. I would assume that for most people, jet fighter pilots are cool, rock stars are cool, footballers are cool, even some poker pros are cool - but not investors.
- thatcat 10y ago
  Contributing to something valuable is the coolest.
bigtimeidiot 10y ago
>making them very rich Uber is a private company that, from everything I've read, is bleeding money and currently getting a ton of bad press. How has it made anyone rich (yet)?
- limeyx 10y ago
  Probably the founders took millions off the table at each funding round while denying this opportunity to the rank and file
cr0sh 10y ago
> I wonder how many of the #DeleteUber reinstalled it quietly a few weeks later. I can't say I was a part of that hashtag "mob", but I got rid of it and haven't considered it since. Furthermore, even though they are one of the potential employers on the Udacity SDC Engineer Nanodegree "shortlist" - assuming I make it that far - I won't be sending my resume their way (or Otto's way, I guess); to me it seems like a toxic culture I want no part of at this moment. Could they change? Sure - right now it is too early to tell, but I have noticed movement in that direction. They still have a long way to go, though. I'm not hitching myself to that boat just yet. > The public has a very short memory I understand that I am an exception to the rule, nor do I really consider myself a part of the "general public"; simply being a poster here sets anyone apart from that particular grouping, generally. My memory about some things tends to run longer; Nadella's gestures to the open-source community aside, I am still wanting an apology for Microsoft's former business practices, especially their hostility toward Linux. I know I will never get it. Secondly, I am still rather angry over how, a few years back, the Susan B. Komen Foundation did this: http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2012/01/do-not-donate-to-susan-g-komen-for-the-cure/ http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2012/01/do-not-donate-to... ...don't think I'll ever forgive that one.
- mankash666 10y ago
  Who's to say you'll crack the interview? They're a tough cookie to crack, regardless of your views on them, so this whole "I won't apply" doesn't really matter. And, for how much they pay, they'll easily find a good/better coder anyways. Everything has a price, and if bad culture can be compensated with a big(ger) paycheck, people will continue to work and apply there.
- 5thaccount 10y ago
  > but I got rid of it and haven't considered it since ... I won't be sending my resume their way From the Parent: > beyond conquering the few percent of the market who can afford to care and care enough to pay a premium That's pretty much a confirmation of the stated view - only people "who can afford to care". And by "afford to care", I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that is (with 99.9% likelihood) someone who posts on Hacker News and could send their resume to Uber (but won't).
mrep 10y ago
> customers will publicly complain and say they will take Lyft, but privately will vote with their wallet I don't know about everywhere else, but i consistently find lyft to be cheaper than uber for rides here in Seattle.
vivekd 10y ago
>I literally cannot think of a company that "won" by promoting its ethical competitiveness, Just off the top of my head there's starbucks whose main marketing innovation when they opened up was that they use only "fair trade" beans. And there's American Apparel, which despite the recent controversy, started off with the marketing promise that they are sweatshop free. I don't know how much ethics matters, but certainly it matters to some extent.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
philippoi 10y ago
> Governments won't do anything since Uber has tons of positive externalities such as... ...They think in terms of net welfare and a few Californians having some issues at work is the least of their worries. That's not all that's at play and ultimately, Denmark did do something: https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/28/uber-to-pull-out-of-denmark-blaming-new-taxi-law/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/28/uber-to-pull-out-of-denmar...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

by crdb 10y ago

johncolanduoni 10y ago

Group rides are a big market for ride sharing, so even if people only drop Uber for those and still use it privately that could be a big hit.

SNwaiga 10y ago

" customers will publicly complain and say they will take Lyft, but privately will vote with their wallet " Exactly, public opinion doesn't really have any weight anymore.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
Did it ever? That it has sounds mostly like a lie told to the public to placate it.
- nebabyte 10y ago
  It's sort of the "why it works on paper" for capitalism. Nominally, it plus low barriers to entry/conversion plus anti-anticompetitive mechanisms/trust-busting/etc lead to power structure wherein only businesses which keep their customers happy thrive. In practice, network effects/'brand name' recognition/QA make for a generally reliable customer base from those who don't remain informed or care about your policies/practices or are just used to your product, and that's even before high barriers to entry and other market factors limiting competition to those who engage in the same cost-cutting-oriented models and so end up optimizing the same way. TL;DR: Probably not.
snowwrestler 10y ago
That sentence doesn't mean that public opinion doesn't have weight. It means that public opinion is complicated because people can hold more than one idea in their head at once.

taway_1212 10y ago

> making them very rich and cool in the process (imagine being able to say "I was an early stage investor in Uber") Are there really people who think being an investor is cool ?

Godel_unicode 10y ago
Interesting question to ask on a site predominantly composed of people who have/want investment, run by a company which has invested in some really cool companies.
RodericDay 10y ago
Only in this tech bubble and in cities swallowed by it like SF. If you live somewhere with a healthier balance of careers where not everything is focused around tech, it would come off as incredibly dull and tone-deaf.
- taway_1212 10y ago
  Yeah, that's my reception as well, that's why I was surprised. Sure, investing requires skill and can get you very rich - but so does running a garbage truck company. I would assume that for most people, jet fighter pilots are cool, rock stars are cool, footballers are cool, even some poker pros are cool - but not investors.
thatcat 10y ago
Contributing to something valuable is the coolest.

bigtimeidiot 10y ago

>making them very rich Uber is a private company that, from everything I've read, is bleeding money and currently getting a ton of bad press. How has it made anyone rich (yet)?

limeyx 10y ago
Probably the founders took millions off the table at each funding round while denying this opportunity to the rank and file

cr0sh 10y ago

> I wonder how many of the #DeleteUber reinstalled it quietly a few weeks later. I can't say I was a part of that hashtag "mob", but I got rid of it and haven't considered it since. Furthermore, even though they are one of the potential employers on the Udacity SDC Engineer Nanodegree "shortlist" - assuming I make it that far - I won't be sending my resume their way (or Otto's way, I guess); to me it seems like a toxic culture I want no part of at this moment. Could they change? Sure - right now it is too early to tell, but I have noticed movement in that direction. They still have a long way to go, though. I'm not hitching myself to that boat just yet. > The public has a very short memory I understand that I am an exception to the rule, nor do I really consider myself a part of the "general public"; simply being a poster here sets anyone apart from that particular grouping, generally. My memory about some things tends to run longer; Nadella's gestures to the open-source community aside, I am still wanting an apology for Microsoft's former business practices, especially their hostility toward Linux. I know I will never get it. Secondly, I am still rather angry over how, a few years back, the Susan B. Komen Foundation did this: http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2012/01/do-not-donate-to-susan-g-komen-for-the-cure/ http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2012/01/do-not-donate-to... ...don't think I'll ever forgive that one.

mankash666 10y ago
Who's to say you'll crack the interview? They're a tough cookie to crack, regardless of your views on them, so this whole "I won't apply" doesn't really matter. And, for how much they pay, they'll easily find a good/better coder anyways. Everything has a price, and if bad culture can be compensated with a big(ger) paycheck, people will continue to work and apply there.
5thaccount 10y ago
> but I got rid of it and haven't considered it since ... I won't be sending my resume their way From the Parent: > beyond conquering the few percent of the market who can afford to care and care enough to pay a premium That's pretty much a confirmation of the stated view - only people "who can afford to care". And by "afford to care", I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that is (with 99.9% likelihood) someone who posts on Hacker News and could send their resume to Uber (but won't).

mrep 10y ago

> customers will publicly complain and say they will take Lyft, but privately will vote with their wallet I don't know about everywhere else, but i consistently find lyft to be cheaper than uber for rides here in Seattle.

vivekd 10y ago

>I literally cannot think of a company that "won" by promoting its ethical competitiveness, Just off the top of my head there's starbucks whose main marketing innovation when they opened up was that they use only "fair trade" beans. And there's American Apparel, which despite the recent controversy, started off with the marketing promise that they are sweatshop free. I don't know how much ethics matters, but certainly it matters to some extent.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

philippoi 10y ago

> Governments won't do anything since Uber has tons of positive externalities such as... ...They think in terms of net welfare and a few Californians having some issues at work is the least of their worries. That's not all that's at play and ultimately, Denmark did do something: https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/28/uber-to-pull-out-of-denmark-blaming-new-taxi-law/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/28/uber-to-pull-out-of-denmar...

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]