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Taking inspiration from the cephalopods, our definition of intelligence also needs to be revised more frequently. Recently, we've started acknowledging more of

Taking inspiration from the cephalopods, our definition of intelligence also needs to be revised more frequently. Recently, we've started acknowledging more of the complexity in other animals, like dolphins for example. I like their color changing behaviors as well[0]. It's is a form of communication we don't fully understand yet. [0] http://ocean.si.edu/ocean-news/how-octopuses-and-squids-change-color http://ocean.si.edu/ocean-news/how-octopuses-and-squids-chan...

tyre 10y ago
Their color changing behaviours are even crazier because they are color blind! Their eyes can "see" the wavelengths, due to their shape, but not process colors the way we do.
- degenerate 10y ago
  So in this way, perhaps it's like a morse code to them. They can "talk" by shifting colors and detecting changes in the visual wavelengths... similar to how we vibrate our vocal cords at different frequencies to form words, and detect the changes in pitch with our ear drum. Now that I've written it out, it seems silly to put "talk" in quotes. They are definitely talking. We just don't know the language. This makes me want to watch Arrival again :)
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  Wait, if they can "see" the wavelengths - which presumably means they can differentiate between them - how is that not color vision? Are you saying that despite the fact that their retinas are sensitive to multiple wavelengths of light, their brains throw this information away?
  - DiThi 10y ago
    It's the opposite. The retinas don't have separate receptors for multiple colors, but the iris has a funky "W" shape, which amplifies the (usually undesired) chromatic aberration which is then interpreted by the brain.
  - waywardyouth 10y ago
    'can't process colors the way we do' somehow becomes 'can't process color' .. this I think is roughly what Ned Block called The Harder Problem re consciousness
    - therein 10y ago
      Correct but it was David Chalmers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chalmers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chalmers
- fenollp 10y ago
  Here's the paper: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/17fb/c72811582e03bde433a709c5439b65c86bf2.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/17fb/c72811582e03bde433a709... As a color blind person (as are 20% of half the population at least), I wonder if we can create glasses that mimic this shape of lens and just gradually train our brains to recognise the added spectrum. (I know about Enchroma, but their marketing disgusts me)
orthecreedence 10y ago
I've thought for a long time that before we focus on communicating with extraterrestrials, it makes more sense to find ways to communicate more fluently with existing beings on our planet, starting with ones we share a common intelligence with (dolphins, raccoons, cephalopods, etc). We take the animals on this planet for granted, as "lesser than," but what's to say they aren't as intelligent and just express it in different ways? You could say "well dolphins don't build cars or xboxes!" and I would say "dolphins also aren't systematically destroying the planet they live on." I know we're slowly bridging the gaps of communication with animals (for instance, dogs who can understand verbal language or dolphins who can associate objects with words), but it would be interesting if there were more fluent ways of communication besides verbal. I think it would do us well to master these.
- taco_emoji 10y ago
  > "dolphins also aren't systematically destroying the planet they live on." You're arguing that dolphins aren't destroying the planet because, what, they decided not to? Dolphins may or may not be smarter than we give them credit for, but the fact that they don't exhibit one particular behavior is not evidence of anything at all.
  - mannykannot 10y ago
    I take it to be a comment on human intelligence.
- rarec 10y ago
  Dolphins not systematically destroying the planet might be more of a lack of ability to instead of desire. Hard to say, really, they're woefully limited in their ability to affect their environment.
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    Yeah, this Dolphin-worship reeks of "noble savage".

tyre 10y ago

Their color changing behaviours are even crazier because they are color blind! Their eyes can "see" the wavelengths, due to their shape, but not process colors the way we do.

degenerate 10y ago
So in this way, perhaps it's like a morse code to them. They can "talk" by shifting colors and detecting changes in the visual wavelengths... similar to how we vibrate our vocal cords at different frequencies to form words, and detect the changes in pitch with our ear drum. Now that I've written it out, it seems silly to put "talk" in quotes. They are definitely talking. We just don't know the language. This makes me want to watch Arrival again :)
pavel_lishin 10y ago
Wait, if they can "see" the wavelengths - which presumably means they can differentiate between them - how is that not color vision? Are you saying that despite the fact that their retinas are sensitive to multiple wavelengths of light, their brains throw this information away?
- DiThi 10y ago
  It's the opposite. The retinas don't have separate receptors for multiple colors, but the iris has a funky "W" shape, which amplifies the (usually undesired) chromatic aberration which is then interpreted by the brain.
- waywardyouth 10y ago
  'can't process colors the way we do' somehow becomes 'can't process color' .. this I think is roughly what Ned Block called The Harder Problem re consciousness
  - therein 10y ago
    Correct but it was David Chalmers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chalmers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chalmers
fenollp 10y ago
Here's the paper: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/17fb/c72811582e03bde433a709c5439b65c86bf2.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/17fb/c72811582e03bde433a709... As a color blind person (as are 20% of half the population at least), I wonder if we can create glasses that mimic this shape of lens and just gradually train our brains to recognise the added spectrum. (I know about Enchroma, but their marketing disgusts me)

orthecreedence 10y ago

I've thought for a long time that before we focus on communicating with extraterrestrials, it makes more sense to find ways to communicate more fluently with existing beings on our planet, starting with ones we share a common intelligence with (dolphins, raccoons, cephalopods, etc). We take the animals on this planet for granted, as "lesser than," but what's to say they aren't as intelligent and just express it in different ways? You could say "well dolphins don't build cars or xboxes!" and I would say "dolphins also aren't systematically destroying the planet they live on." I know we're slowly bridging the gaps of communication with animals (for instance, dogs who can understand verbal language or dolphins who can associate objects with words), but it would be interesting if there were more fluent ways of communication besides verbal. I think it would do us well to master these.

taco_emoji 10y ago
> "dolphins also aren't systematically destroying the planet they live on." You're arguing that dolphins aren't destroying the planet because, what, they decided not to? Dolphins may or may not be smarter than we give them credit for, but the fact that they don't exhibit one particular behavior is not evidence of anything at all.
- mannykannot 10y ago
  I take it to be a comment on human intelligence.
rarec 10y ago
Dolphins not systematically destroying the planet might be more of a lack of ability to instead of desire. Hard to say, really, they're woefully limited in their ability to affect their environment.
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  Yeah, this Dolphin-worship reeks of "noble savage".