6 ms·

I've wondered why everyone and their moms are pushing people to study computer science and STEM, but you don't see the same push for physicians.

by cocoa19 10y ago

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
burkemw3 10y ago
I consider health professions as STEM, under Science specifically. US ICE has a list of degrees that includes a number of health related degrees: https://www.ice.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Document/2014/stem-list.pdf https://www.ice.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Document/2...
ikeyany 10y ago
Because it takes 0-4 years of schooling to get your foot in the STEM door, but 8-12 years of schooling for medicine. That pretty much bars access for anyone interested in having money in their 20s/30s, and those without a strong support system. There is a reason why only those from affluent/foreign backgrounds go into medicine. They're the only ones who can "afford" to not make money right out of college.
- cantankerous 10y ago
  Realistically, it takes 4 years to attempt to get your foot in the door at a medical school unless you have pre-admittance or you're looking at a special case like UMKC's 6-year program. Getting into an MD or a DO program isn't a guaranteed thing. It's a substantial downside risk. Also, you can have a STEM-based undergraduate education as your pre-med, even math and computer science can count if you take the right additional electives. The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's a good fallback if you bomb out of getting into med school (or decide 3 years into ugrad that you don't want to apply).
  - ikeyany 10y ago
    4 years of undergrad and 4 years of med school at least. And I agree that a tech related bachelor's is a good idea for a med school backup.
- geebee 10y ago
  True, though many of the initiatives for more STEM workers (through visa programs) focus more on graduate students, especially at the PhD level. There are various exemptions to visa caps for people with grad degrees, and there was a proposal (that died along with general immigration reform) to provide a green card to anyone with a PhD in certain STEM fields, with a possibility for people with MS degrees should there not be enough PhDs. It's not 100%, but I'd say there is definitely a push toward graduate education in the "STEM worker shortage" conversation. Interestingly, a RAND study found that the reason people with choice don't get PhDs in STEM fields is because they aren't competitive with the "professions", or even para-professions in health related areas. https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/issue_papers/2005/IP241.pdf https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/issue_papers/2005...
maxerickson 10y ago
The education pipeline for doctors is completely full. With medical schools turning away large numbers of applicants. People on this site frequently gripe about medical school and residency slots.
TorKlingberg 10y ago
Aren't medicine and law the classic things demanding parents push their kids to study?

I've wondered why everyone and their moms are pushing people to study computer science and STEM, but you don't see the same push for physicians.

by cocoa19 10y ago

I've wondered why everyone and their moms are pushing people to study computer science and STEM, but you don't see the same push for physicians.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

burkemw3 10y ago

I consider health professions as STEM, under Science specifically. US ICE has a list of degrees that includes a number of health related degrees: https://www.ice.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Document/2014/stem-list.pdf https://www.ice.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Document/2...

ikeyany 10y ago

Because it takes 0-4 years of schooling to get your foot in the STEM door, but 8-12 years of schooling for medicine. That pretty much bars access for anyone interested in having money in their 20s/30s, and those without a strong support system. There is a reason why only those from affluent/foreign backgrounds go into medicine. They're the only ones who can "afford" to not make money right out of college.

cantankerous 10y ago
Realistically, it takes 4 years to attempt to get your foot in the door at a medical school unless you have pre-admittance or you're looking at a special case like UMKC's 6-year program. Getting into an MD or a DO program isn't a guaranteed thing. It's a substantial downside risk. Also, you can have a STEM-based undergraduate education as your pre-med, even math and computer science can count if you take the right additional electives. The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's a good fallback if you bomb out of getting into med school (or decide 3 years into ugrad that you don't want to apply).
- ikeyany 10y ago
  4 years of undergrad and 4 years of med school at least. And I agree that a tech related bachelor's is a good idea for a med school backup.
geebee 10y ago
True, though many of the initiatives for more STEM workers (through visa programs) focus more on graduate students, especially at the PhD level. There are various exemptions to visa caps for people with grad degrees, and there was a proposal (that died along with general immigration reform) to provide a green card to anyone with a PhD in certain STEM fields, with a possibility for people with MS degrees should there not be enough PhDs. It's not 100%, but I'd say there is definitely a push toward graduate education in the "STEM worker shortage" conversation. Interestingly, a RAND study found that the reason people with choice don't get PhDs in STEM fields is because they aren't competitive with the "professions", or even para-professions in health related areas. https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/issue_papers/2005/IP241.pdf https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/issue_papers/2005...

maxerickson 10y ago

The education pipeline for doctors is completely full. With medical schools turning away large numbers of applicants. People on this site frequently gripe about medical school and residency slots.

TorKlingberg 10y ago

Aren't medicine and law the classic things demanding parents push their kids to study?