5 ms·
These data would be more informative, were they also paired with vocational costs MDs also incur, usually unavoidably. Malpractice insurance, prep for board ex
by westbywest 10y ago
These data would be more informative, were they also paired with vocational costs MDs also incur, usually unavoidably. Malpractice insurance, prep for board exams, for example. Note that the latter can include having to travel to conferences, or similar events, to stay current in the field, and there may not always be an employer to reimburse such costs. Likewise, insurance rates will vary between disciplines, eg. higher for radiology vs psychiatry.
- sndean 10y agoAlso, it's probably helpful to factor in how much debt they're in starting out. My fiancee is in (we're in) >400000 of debt. And as a resident she's effectively making ~-2 dollars/hour [0], because of the interest rate on that loan, location, and hours. I can't find it immediately, but in a recent MedScape report, some ~5% of physicians are still paying off their med school debt at 60 years old. [0] http://dotphra.se/ http://dotphra.se/
- cpfohl 10y agoDon't forget malpractice insurance. As high as $200k/yr for high risk doctors like obstetricians. That significantly reduces your take home pay.
- Gibbon1 10y agoWhen I read this 25 years ago (insane malpractice insurance for obstetricians) my thought was a good national health insurance program would probably fix that. If the US took better care of families with sick/special needs children they wouldn't have to go after the doctors when stuff goes wrong.
- massysett 10y ago"some ~5% of physicians are still paying off their med school debt at 60 years old" I bet that for a lot of these physicians it's because the debt has favorable terms, not because it's onerous. I expect to be paying off educational debt well into my fifties. I could pay it off right now, but the rate is below 2 percent, so it's advantageous to carry the debt. In particular, if I die the debt is wiped clean...but if I have already paid it back, my heirs won't get that money back. No reason at all to pay off this debt until I have to.
- Fomite 10y agoAgreed. It would also put say, the Infectious Disease specialty in its proper context, as that involves even more extensive training than say, internal medicine.
- gingerbread-man 10y agoGeography and type of employment also play huge roles. A clinical professor at UCLA earns far less than a private practice doctor in Ft. Worth.
- Consultant32452 10y agoI don't really understand this. I'm a small business owner and all the insurance, training costs, etc. are not money I make. Those are business expenses. If you work for a big hospital or group, the employer pays for all that. If you open a private practice, your business still pays for it. The doctor and their practice are separate legal entities for a reason. The doctor's salary comes AFTER all that stuff is paid for by the business. So you don't subtract the cost of insurance from their salary.
- jessaustin 10y agoLots of doctors operate their businesses as sole proprietors, and not all firms that employ doctors provide malpractice. (Granted, that's a shitty policy, but it happens, and it's even a bit theoretically justified since it might cut down on moral hazard.)
- Consultant32452 10y agoSole proprietors still have business expenses that are separate from their income, which comes after. Additionally, anyone making Doctor money who runs their business as a sole proprietorship is a fool for not protecting their personal assets from their business dealings.
- jessaustin 10y agoEven if all the physicians were to decide to do their accounting the way you recommend, one would still need to make adjustments for the costs of doing business, when considering reporting of income like that found in TFA, which certainly does not include such adjustments.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- Consultant32452 10y agoIt's not a matter of "decide to do their accounting." Business expenses are business expenses, even if you're a sole proprietor. It is a business expense, therefore it comes before your salary. Just like any other business expense, you could technically not choose to claim that business expense, but then you'd be paying income tax on that money. But you could also choose not to claim your office space rent, the salaries you pay your administrative staff, etc. Those things are all in the same category.