6 ms·

Name a modern American denomination that rejects prosperity theology.

vkou 10y ago
Catholics.
Cacti 10y ago
Almost all? Catholicism, Evangelical in general, Pentecostal, Lutheran, Baptist, etc. It's most assuredly not remotely mainstream. Note that the megachurches you're referring to are in most cases not part of a branch of Christianity but stand alone.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Are you all using the same definition of "modern denomination"?
  - rrauenza 10y ago
    ...and the same definition of "prosperity gospel"?
- thebooktocome 10y ago
  Okay, Catholicism. Fair enough. But I think you're wrong about every other denomination on your list. I've been to enough Baptist and Lutheran churches to feel justified in disagreement. The Presbyterians (including our president) feel much the same way. The simple fact is that God's blessing = economic prosperity is practically biblical. "May his tribe increase" and all that. Also I'm not OP and did not refer to megachurches.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > I've been to enough Baptist and Lutheran churches to feel justified in disagreement. The largest Baptist (Southern Baptist Convention) and Lutheran (both ELCA and Missouri Synod) denominations absolutely reject it. Baptist and Lutheran are broad traditions, not unitary denominations, and there are certainly minor groups that identify with those traditions that preach either the particular beliefs of the modern "prosperity gospel" or other things that fit within the broader ambit of prosperity theology. > The Presbyterians (including our president) feel much the same way. Presbyterianism is a branch of Calvinism, and it's unsurprising that the Calvinist doctrine of the visible elect would be more influential there than in other branches of Protestantism (or non-Protestant Christianity.)
  - patrickg_zill 10y ago
    "May his tribe increase" is from a poem about Abou ben Adhem, IIRC. Not from the Bible... https://m.poemhunter.com/poem/abou-ben-adhem/ https://m.poemhunter.com/poem/abou-ben-adhem/
    - thebooktocome 10y ago
      It's an obvious reference to Genesis 22:17.
      - patrickg_zill 10y ago
        What translation did you get this wording from? It's not found in KJV (old school Protestants ), Douay Rheims, NIV(mega churches, some Baptists, many others), or NASB (mainly used by Catholics) translations.
        thebooktocome 10y ago
        It's not a translation. It's an allusion. Commonly used by evangelicals. You're over thinking it.
        patrickg_zill 10y ago
        Source please? I grew up in an evangelical home and went to church every Sunday - and have never heard of "may his tribe increase" aside from that poem.
        areyousure 10y ago
        It's not just you. Googling "may his tribe increase" and "Genesis 22:17" only finds this thread.
- Arizhel 10y ago
  They don't need to be "part of a branch of Christianity" to be Christian; it doesn't work that way. In fact, they represent a majority of (non-Catholic) Christians in America these days. The mainline Protestant groups (Lutheran, Episcopal, etc.) are dying out, and all the younger people are going to the independent evangelical Prosperity Gospel megachurches now. The Catholics are really the only serious exception.
sparrish 10y ago
Southern Baptists (nation's largest Protestant denomination) has long taken a stance against prosperity preaching. http://www.christianpost.com/news/what-is-americas-largest-protestant-denomination-doing-to-combat-predatory-prosperity-preaching-144036/ http://www.christianpost.com/news/what-is-americas-largest-p...
rrauenza 10y ago
I'd never read the wiki on it, and was pleased to see a criticism section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology#Criticism Mainstream evangelicalism has consistently opposed prosperity theology as heresy[37] and prosperity ministries have frequently come into conflict with other Christian groups, including those within the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements.[35] Critics, such as Evangelical pastor Michael Catt, have argued that prosperity theology has little in common with traditional Christian theology.[71] Prominent evangelical leaders, such as Rick Warren,[27] Ben Witherington III,[27] and Jerry Falwell,[72] have harshly criticized the movement, sometimes denouncing it as heretical.[27] Warren proposes that prosperity theology promotes the idolatry of money, and others argue that Jesus' teachings indicate a disdain for material wealth.[27] In Mark: Jesus, Servant and Savior, R. Kent Hughes notes that some 1st-century rabbis portrayed material blessings as a sign of God's favor. He cites Jesus' statement in Mark 10:25 that "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God" (KJV) as evidence to oppose such thinking.[73]
- cmurf 10y ago
  That's funny. Most of the named individuals have gotten fat off the hog from their charlatanry. They say one thing but then live a life concomitant with belief they're better people due to their success. They're a waste of space even once dead and buried. But of course anything they want believers to just look away from and not actually explore, is labeled heresy, or sacrilege, or apostasy. A good sign they don't care is they just shrug. The sign they want something for themselves is to label it proscribed for man. And considering the deals the Catholic church made to gain money, power, and have its political adversaries, ordinary citizens, murdered: It's objectively a more depraved and immoral organization than all of the American ones combined. An organization that looks evil incarnate in the eye, and when ostensibly should be able to, among any organization, recognize and object to it and defend humanity against it, actually made a pact with evil instead. There might be no more wretched single organization than the Catholic Church because of the hope it was supposed to stand for, and the immense and consistent betrayal of that trust throughout its history. So the idea the Catholic church stands opposed to prosperity theology is like shit icing on a shit cake. It's ridiculous. It's not even believable. And it wouldn't be funny if someone tried to sell you such a thing.
dragonwriter 10y ago
The single largest Christian denomination in the US, Catholicism, rejects it; it seems that some of the larger Protestant groups do, too, including the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and the Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod, the two largest denominations in the Lutheran tradition. The modern "prosperity Gospel" or "word-faith" movement is basically a televangelist/megachurch phenomenon, though "prosperity theology" can more broadly encompass things like the classical Calvinist doctrine of the visible elect. Even in its broadest interpretation, though, prosperity theology has always been a minority view in Christianity, even American Christianity.

vkou 10y ago

Catholics.

Cacti 10y ago

Almost all? Catholicism, Evangelical in general, Pentecostal, Lutheran, Baptist, etc. It's most assuredly not remotely mainstream. Note that the megachurches you're referring to are in most cases not part of a branch of Christianity but stand alone.

maxerickson 10y ago
Are you all using the same definition of "modern denomination"?
- rrauenza 10y ago
  ...and the same definition of "prosperity gospel"?
thebooktocome 10y ago
Okay, Catholicism. Fair enough. But I think you're wrong about every other denomination on your list. I've been to enough Baptist and Lutheran churches to feel justified in disagreement. The Presbyterians (including our president) feel much the same way. The simple fact is that God's blessing = economic prosperity is practically biblical. "May his tribe increase" and all that. Also I'm not OP and did not refer to megachurches.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > I've been to enough Baptist and Lutheran churches to feel justified in disagreement. The largest Baptist (Southern Baptist Convention) and Lutheran (both ELCA and Missouri Synod) denominations absolutely reject it. Baptist and Lutheran are broad traditions, not unitary denominations, and there are certainly minor groups that identify with those traditions that preach either the particular beliefs of the modern "prosperity gospel" or other things that fit within the broader ambit of prosperity theology. > The Presbyterians (including our president) feel much the same way. Presbyterianism is a branch of Calvinism, and it's unsurprising that the Calvinist doctrine of the visible elect would be more influential there than in other branches of Protestantism (or non-Protestant Christianity.)
- patrickg_zill 10y ago
  "May his tribe increase" is from a poem about Abou ben Adhem, IIRC. Not from the Bible... https://m.poemhunter.com/poem/abou-ben-adhem/ https://m.poemhunter.com/poem/abou-ben-adhem/
  - thebooktocome 10y ago
    It's an obvious reference to Genesis 22:17.
    - patrickg_zill 10y ago
      What translation did you get this wording from? It's not found in KJV (old school Protestants ), Douay Rheims, NIV(mega churches, some Baptists, many others), or NASB (mainly used by Catholics) translations.
      - thebooktocome 10y ago
        It's not a translation. It's an allusion. Commonly used by evangelicals. You're over thinking it.
        patrickg_zill 10y ago
        Source please? I grew up in an evangelical home and went to church every Sunday - and have never heard of "may his tribe increase" aside from that poem.
        areyousure 10y ago
        It's not just you. Googling "may his tribe increase" and "Genesis 22:17" only finds this thread.
Arizhel 10y ago
They don't need to be "part of a branch of Christianity" to be Christian; it doesn't work that way. In fact, they represent a majority of (non-Catholic) Christians in America these days. The mainline Protestant groups (Lutheran, Episcopal, etc.) are dying out, and all the younger people are going to the independent evangelical Prosperity Gospel megachurches now. The Catholics are really the only serious exception.

sparrish 10y ago

Southern Baptists (nation's largest Protestant denomination) has long taken a stance against prosperity preaching. http://www.christianpost.com/news/what-is-americas-largest-protestant-denomination-doing-to-combat-predatory-prosperity-preaching-144036/ http://www.christianpost.com/news/what-is-americas-largest-p...

rrauenza 10y ago

I'd never read the wiki on it, and was pleased to see a criticism section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology#Criticism Mainstream evangelicalism has consistently opposed prosperity theology as heresy[37] and prosperity ministries have frequently come into conflict with other Christian groups, including those within the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements.[35] Critics, such as Evangelical pastor Michael Catt, have argued that prosperity theology has little in common with traditional Christian theology.[71] Prominent evangelical leaders, such as Rick Warren,[27] Ben Witherington III,[27] and Jerry Falwell,[72] have harshly criticized the movement, sometimes denouncing it as heretical.[27] Warren proposes that prosperity theology promotes the idolatry of money, and others argue that Jesus' teachings indicate a disdain for material wealth.[27] In Mark: Jesus, Servant and Savior, R. Kent Hughes notes that some 1st-century rabbis portrayed material blessings as a sign of God's favor. He cites Jesus' statement in Mark 10:25 that "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God" (KJV) as evidence to oppose such thinking.[73]

cmurf 10y ago
That's funny. Most of the named individuals have gotten fat off the hog from their charlatanry. They say one thing but then live a life concomitant with belief they're better people due to their success. They're a waste of space even once dead and buried. But of course anything they want believers to just look away from and not actually explore, is labeled heresy, or sacrilege, or apostasy. A good sign they don't care is they just shrug. The sign they want something for themselves is to label it proscribed for man. And considering the deals the Catholic church made to gain money, power, and have its political adversaries, ordinary citizens, murdered: It's objectively a more depraved and immoral organization than all of the American ones combined. An organization that looks evil incarnate in the eye, and when ostensibly should be able to, among any organization, recognize and object to it and defend humanity against it, actually made a pact with evil instead. There might be no more wretched single organization than the Catholic Church because of the hope it was supposed to stand for, and the immense and consistent betrayal of that trust throughout its history. So the idea the Catholic church stands opposed to prosperity theology is like shit icing on a shit cake. It's ridiculous. It's not even believable. And it wouldn't be funny if someone tried to sell you such a thing.

dragonwriter 10y ago

The single largest Christian denomination in the US, Catholicism, rejects it; it seems that some of the larger Protestant groups do, too, including the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and the Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod, the two largest denominations in the Lutheran tradition. The modern "prosperity Gospel" or "word-faith" movement is basically a televangelist/megachurch phenomenon, though "prosperity theology" can more broadly encompass things like the classical Calvinist doctrine of the visible elect. Even in its broadest interpretation, though, prosperity theology has always been a minority view in Christianity, even American Christianity.