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Blue Origin is ahead of SpaceX when it comes to their engines. I actually think the similarity is a lot like Waymo and Tesla with respect to their self driving

by rohit89 10y ago

Blue Origin is ahead of SpaceX when it comes to their engines. I actually think the similarity is a lot like Waymo and Tesla with respect to their self driving programs. A billion dollars is a lot of money for a company that has very few launches and only about 600 people.

greglindahl 10y ago
It's an apples to oranges comparison. One of the two companies manufactures O(100) engines per year, flies them to orbit on a regular basis, and has had the opportunity to examine and test O(50) engines that have flown and were recovered. That counts for a lot, even if the other company is going to test-fire a full scale methane engine sooner.
valuearb 10y ago
How? Isn't the Raptor already in testing? How is the BE-4 ahead of it?
- Robotbeat 10y ago
  Blue Origin has more press releases about BE-4 than SpaceX has about Raptor. /sarc EDIT: In all seriousness, Blue Origin has had a reputation for secrecy, but in the last year or two, they've shed that partly because they're now a major contractor for ULA in a competition to provide the main engines for their new rocket (Vulcan). They are facing a politically-well-connected opponent (Aerojet-Rocketdyne). If they keep silent, they could very well lose out. I think that explains why Blue Origin has been very vocal even though it hasn't even been test-fired, yet. (I think Blue Origin's engine is way better than AJR's, BTW.) SpaceX, on the other hand, had a reputation for loudly proclaiming any progress. Early on they would roll out half-finished prototypes as evidence of progress even though they still had a lot of work to do. Yet in the last few years, they've started being more secretive. Other than a few miniscule mentions in NASA PR releases from Stennis mentioning a little bit about the component testing, they've only publicly released evidence of all the work they've been doing after they did a test firing in Texas with Musk's big Interplanetary Transport System unveiling. SpaceX doesn't have as much reason to be show-boating progress, partly because they HAVE been making a lot of progress. So since their secrecy is relatively recent, people assume that just because SpaceX hasn't loudly proclaimed something, that therefore they haven't made any progress, while Blue Origin is the opposite. But if you look at who has test-fired and who hasn't, then SpaceX is ahead for Raptor vs BE-4. If you look at actual orbital-scale reuse, SpaceX is far ahead. If you look at level of technology in the engine and things like Isp, density, and thrust to weight ratio, then Raptor is much higher than BE-4. If you look at thrust to weight ratio period, then Merlin 1D is ahead of everything in existence, with a thrust to mass ratio of somewhere between 150 to 200, depending on which version and thrust level. The nearest competitor is NK-33 with T/W of 137.
  - rohit89 10y ago
    The Raptor that was test fired was a scaled version.
    - Robotbeat 10y ago
      That's the poorly-sourced hearsay. It was lower thrust, but that doesn't mean it was physically smaller. Most likely, it was operated at a lower chamber pressure, since the most difficult thing about Raptor is the crazy high chamber pressure. Also, Raptor needs to be able to throttle down a lot anyway.

by rohit89 10y ago

greglindahl 10y ago

It's an apples to oranges comparison. One of the two companies manufactures O(100) engines per year, flies them to orbit on a regular basis, and has had the opportunity to examine and test O(50) engines that have flown and were recovered. That counts for a lot, even if the other company is going to test-fire a full scale methane engine sooner.

valuearb 10y ago

How? Isn't the Raptor already in testing? How is the BE-4 ahead of it?

Robotbeat 10y ago
Blue Origin has more press releases about BE-4 than SpaceX has about Raptor. /sarc EDIT: In all seriousness, Blue Origin has had a reputation for secrecy, but in the last year or two, they've shed that partly because they're now a major contractor for ULA in a competition to provide the main engines for their new rocket (Vulcan). They are facing a politically-well-connected opponent (Aerojet-Rocketdyne). If they keep silent, they could very well lose out. I think that explains why Blue Origin has been very vocal even though it hasn't even been test-fired, yet. (I think Blue Origin's engine is way better than AJR's, BTW.) SpaceX, on the other hand, had a reputation for loudly proclaiming any progress. Early on they would roll out half-finished prototypes as evidence of progress even though they still had a lot of work to do. Yet in the last few years, they've started being more secretive. Other than a few miniscule mentions in NASA PR releases from Stennis mentioning a little bit about the component testing, they've only publicly released evidence of all the work they've been doing after they did a test firing in Texas with Musk's big Interplanetary Transport System unveiling. SpaceX doesn't have as much reason to be show-boating progress, partly because they HAVE been making a lot of progress. So since their secrecy is relatively recent, people assume that just because SpaceX hasn't loudly proclaimed something, that therefore they haven't made any progress, while Blue Origin is the opposite. But if you look at who has test-fired and who hasn't, then SpaceX is ahead for Raptor vs BE-4. If you look at actual orbital-scale reuse, SpaceX is far ahead. If you look at level of technology in the engine and things like Isp, density, and thrust to weight ratio, then Raptor is much higher than BE-4. If you look at thrust to weight ratio period, then Merlin 1D is ahead of everything in existence, with a thrust to mass ratio of somewhere between 150 to 200, depending on which version and thrust level. The nearest competitor is NK-33 with T/W of 137.
- rohit89 10y ago
  The Raptor that was test fired was a scaled version.
  - Robotbeat 10y ago
    That's the poorly-sourced hearsay. It was lower thrust, but that doesn't mean it was physically smaller. Most likely, it was operated at a lower chamber pressure, since the most difficult thing about Raptor is the crazy high chamber pressure. Also, Raptor needs to be able to throttle down a lot anyway.