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Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

158 points by anorborg 9y ago

minimaxir 9y ago
Note: Eurogamer has the official exclusive for this information. The tech is incrementally better than the PS4 Pro, but the price is unknown and could be problematic if released at $499 compared to the PS4 Pro's $399. And whether developers will take full advantage of that power.
- dontyouremember 9y ago
  On paper it's incrementally better--significantly higher clocks, more RAM and much more memory bandwidth. But the bigger news is that all existing Xbox One games get 16x anisotropic filtering, framerate boosts, v-sync, and resolution bumps (if the game supports dynamic resolution). Not to mention system-wide downsampling for 1080p TV's. Should be a pretty big bump in image quality for Xbox One games. They demoed Forza running at 4k/60 FPS with PC Ultra-equivalent settings at less than 90% GPU load.
  - thoughtpalette 9y ago
    Not sure why but some of your previous comments are showing up [dead] in the threads.
    - mlvljr 9y ago
      He's prolly one of those disgusting trolls!
    - thoughtpalette 9y ago
      Replying to the dead comment below, his post history looks great to me, which is why I felt compelled to point out the dead flag.
      - onli 9y ago
        OT, but I'll keep it short, and the user should now it is okay now: you are right. I vouched for the comment in this thread and that seems to have helped. Looking at the history, it's probably the anti-trump comment that got flagged.
blktiger 9y ago
It sounds like MS has been able to get a lot out of their hardware. It will be interesting to see how much it costs.
- archeanthus 9y ago
  I'm expecting to be along with predictions, being right around $500. I won't be surprise if it ends up being more, though.
Grazester 9y ago
Direct X CPU instruction that were handled by the CPU is now handled by the GPU! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE2hNrq1Zxs&feature=youtu.be&t=3m5s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE2hNrq1Zxs&feature=youtu.be...
- monocasa 9y ago
  Eh, that's not the biggest deal, it's basically always been like that on consoles, and that's the whole point of Mantle/Metal/Vulkan/DX12. ie. the fact that GPUs have MMUs these days, so user space can just write raw to the command buffer without being second guessed by the kernel drivers. The switch to DX12 is just that you can write the same sort of code on Windows and Xbone (the 360 had enough extensions that you sort of had to have separate rendering backends for 360 and Windows, despite them both potentially being DirectX 9).
dontyouremember 9y ago
I'm excited by the specs, especially given that Red Dead Redemption 2, Battlefront 2, Call of Duty WW2, and Destiny 2 are all hitting this holiday. Should be the best way to play those games. Although I wish they had more unique games coming out alongside that stuff. Playing Zelda on Switch is a good reminder that eye candy doesn't matter all that much after the novelty wears off.
BatFastard 9y ago
This should provide some amazing graphics on a 4K screen! The console programmers do some incredible feats with the resources they have available.
- strictnein 9y ago
  This 4k screenshot is really impressive, and as the benchmarks at the top show, there's lots of headroom: https://cdn.gamer-network.net/2017/screenshots/Forza-Tech-Screenshot.png https://cdn.gamer-network.net/2017/screenshots/Forza-Tech-Sc... Takes a minute to load, I think their cdn is a little overloaded currently.
  - BatFastard 9y ago
    Great shot, 17 years ago I predicted that within 10 years you would not be able to tell the real from the computer generated. This is the first screen shot that qualifies IMHO, because this comes damn close to looking real.
    - strictnein 9y ago
      Unfortunately they didn't have a screenshot of Forza running at Ultra level settings, which is mentioned in the article as being achievable, because I think the line would be blurred even further.
      - pilom 9y ago
        I hope Ultra level settings add a fair bit b/c the aliasing on that screenshot is incredibly obvious everywhere but especially on the cables holding the starting lights and the barrier fences. It looks good but it isn't real by a long shot.
        BatFastard 9y ago
        I see it when you mention it, but it did not standout for me by any means. And it might be an artifact if the image is being downsize automatically for you to view it (I know it was for me).
nlawalker 9y ago
If you own a PS4 or an X1 and the money to buy a PS4 Pro or Scorpio, it seems like the best move is to buy the upgrade of the platform you don't have. Then you've got access to both platforms' exclusives, and at least one new-spec machine for the games that aren't exclusive. I think the most interesting thing is going to see how compatibility works out long-term for Scorpio. What will the cross-compat story be for the next console, and the one after that? Will they re-platform and lose compatibility again (and bring it back via emulation) or keep re-spec'ing the current platform? When will we see games that will play on Scorpio but not X1?
- snuxoll 9y ago
  > If you own a PS4 or an X1 and the money to buy a PS4 Pro or Scorpio, it seems like the best move is to buy the upgrade of the platform you don't have. Then you've got access to both platforms' exclusives, and at least one new-spec machine for the games that aren't exclusive. As someone who owns both consoles, after seeing the lack of enthusiasm at the PS4 Pro launch event I decided to hold off until Scorpio specs became known - I much prefer the Xbox "experience" but outside of exclusives it never gets much use since my "high-fidelity" gaming goes on my PC, and "console exclusives" usually are better on the PS4 (looking at Final Fantasy XV in particular here). I'm glad I waited, there are games I want to play that are console exclusives but not tied to one platform or the other (Kingdom Hearts 3) - it looks like Microsoft hit this one out of the park. Seeing as the HDD in my OG Xbox One is going to fail soon (man is it noisy) the Scorpio looks like a good upgrade path. > I think the most interesting thing is going to see how compatibility works out long-term for Scorpio. What will the cross-compat story be for the next console, and the one after that? Will they re-platform and lose compatibility again (and bring it back via emulation) or keep re-spec'ing the current platform? When will we see games that will play on Scorpio but not X1? I believe the intent is that we are entering an era of smartphone-esque spec bumps to consoles, and getting rid of the full generational gap that has historically existed. From here on out, expect new hardware every couple years that will be compatible with your existing library - after existing hardware is X generations old it will stop receiving software support and you'll have to upgrade. Likely, when the Scorpio+1/2 is out you'll see the original Xbox One and Xbox One S losing support for some newer titles (but they'll likely continue receiving support from indie developers and less intense games along with system software updates for a while after that).
chocolatebunny 9y ago
Does anyone know anything about the "Hovis method" they reference for fine tuning the power profile for each chip? I'm having a tough time understanding how tweaking the voltage rails from board to board can improve power consumption/heat dissipation without impacting CPU performance.
- Symmetry 9y ago
  Normally, yes. Due to process variations each chip has a slightly different maximum frequency for a given voltage. Usually chip makers test each chip, sort them by how fast they can go at a standardized voltage, and sell the faster ones for more money under a different model number - sometimes also fusing off features like multi threading. It sounds like what Microsoft is doing is standardizing on frequency and giving different chips as much voltage as they need to hit their performance targets. So everybody buying one of these consoles gets the same performance but some people will have more power hungry consoles than others. Possibly those people will get better heat sinks?
  - wlesieutre 9y ago
    Or same heatsink, different fan speed. Some people get a quieter one, and others sound like a jet engine.
andrewbarba 9y ago
Maybe I am completely off the marks here, and I'm sorry if this is off topic, but as someone who follows very closely what Apple is (or isn't?) doing in their Pro machines I am very curious how those specs compare to what everyone is asking for from Apple. The RAM is obviously low, fine, but it sounds like the CPU and GPU are significantly more capable than anything that Apple is shipping right now, and Microsoft will sell this thing at a fraction of the price that Apple will sell any pro hardware. What am I missing? Where is the big gap in component cost? How is something like an Xbox so different, and so much cheaper, than a pro level desktop?
- mariusmg 9y ago
  AMD vs Intel components is one part of the equation.
- EpicEng 9y ago
  I've never seen anything in an apple desktop that suggests they aren't ludicrously overpriced. You can piece together a monster of a desktop for 2k, so I don't get it either.
  - EpicEng 9y ago
    If you're going to downvote I'd love to hear your reasoning. What about a Mac Pro justifies it's price?
- 83457 9y ago
  Traditionally consoles are sold at a loss at first and the as components come down in price it evens out. Last gen though xbone and ps4 were essentially sold at cost. Most likely this is sold at cost and then they make money off of games. Apple needs to cover costs of OS and make a profit off of the computer alone and people are willing to pay a premium for Apple.
  - ekianjo 9y ago
    > Traditionally consoles are sold at a loss at first That has not been the case since this generation, and even most Nintendo consoles were not sold at loss. the Wii was already profitable at launch, hardware and price-wise. Plus, looking at sites like iSupply is not a good estimation of the real cost of consoles, since manufacturers who order millions of parts do not pay the same price per component as consumers.
bhouston 9y ago
I suspect this is using the new Ryzen cores from AMD? If so then that by itself is a big performance boost.
- strictnein 9y ago
  They specifically state it is not. > "To be clear, then: Project Scorpio doesn't feature Ryzen cores, but the Xbox team are not so concerned about this. "On the CPU side of things, we could still meet our design goals with the custom changes we made," Kevin Gammill points out. "At the end of the day we are still a consumer product. We want to hit the price-points where consumers want to purchase this. It's about balancing the two.""
emdowling 9y ago
I'm glad we're seeing utilisation at the 66% level. That extra power is going to be mighty useful for VR. It's going to be really interesting to see what Microsoft reveal there. I have an Xbox One and a Switch. Personally, I love this combination and Scorpio could be a great upgrade depending on the VR story. While I do miss out on some PS4 games I'd love to play, I don't have enough hours to play the games I already have. The ideological gap between Switch and the rest of the industry is widening. No doubt the Switch is a cheaper platform to develop for (4K assets are a huge burden) but is that enough of a drawcard? Likewise, are consoles like Scorpio and PS4 Pro becoming too difficult and expensive to develop for, unless you are a AAA studio? The bar gets set so high that smaller studios will find it harder and harder to keep up. I can easily foresee a future where the Switch has an amazing selection of first party, Nintendo games and a killer catalogue of indies, whereas Xbox and PS4 own the third-party, AAA market.
- nightski 9y ago
  Actually it feels like the trend you are starting to see is that AAA studios can't even keep up (aka Mass Effect Andromeda, and other recent high profile releases). The graphics burden just seems too high that everything else suffers. But it's not all bad. I feel like, especially on the PC, smaller indie studios have been flourishing and some of the best games in recent times are not AAA nor graphical powerhouses.
  - snuxoll 9y ago
    > Actually it feels like the trend you are starting to see is that AAA studios can't even keep up (aka Mass Effect Andromeda, and other recent high profile releases). The graphics burden just seems too high that everything else suffers. The problem with Andromeda was animations, not AAA graphical fidelity. I don't think many people are unhappy with the current level of flashy effects, we're mostly just looking at higher resolution assets (which likely exist already).
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
clhodapp 9y ago
Hrm, I can't help but think that despite this being only slightly more than Sony's PS4 Pro spec-wise, that difference is going to matter a lot because it seems to be the difference between being able to output (upscaled) 4k and being able to render 4k. We'll see if that turns out to be true when the Scorpio Xbox One actually launches (this kind of pre-release article is very prone to botching facts like this). If it does hold then this machine actually has some hope of switching the preferred platform for console games back over to Xbox One.
- phonon 9y ago
  Does it really make much of a difference? Even for large screen TV's, you would need to sit about 3-5 feet from a 4K TV to make out every pixel. 3k rendered, then upscaled to 4K should be pretty much indistinguishable to 99% of viewers.
Analemma_ 9y ago
It's interesting that, for the second time this week, a big company has given journalists an exclusive and sort of intimate look at their future roadmap instead of saving it for big keynote surprises. Between leaks making nothing ever a surprise anymore and the general jadedness at products never living up to their keynote claims, I wonder if this signals a kind of paradigm shift in "how to hype a product". Certainly all the Apple commentators seemed very pleased that Apple was breaking with their traditional radio silence, and this made me much more interested in Scorpio than I was recently, since I can see from a skeptical source that it's not just hot air.
KaoruAoiShiho 9y ago
This is MS admitting defeat for this gen and going for an early next gen. BC gives it the mid-gen excuse though. This is a good move though and will put Xbox back on the map.
- supernovae 9y ago
  So Sony admitted defeat and made the PS4 pro? I think more than anything, it's the fact 4k happened much quicker than expected..
  - mikewhy 9y ago
    Maybe. My thought was that the release PS4/Xbone were still too far behind PCs
    - Narishma 9y ago
      People who buy consoles don't generally care how far behind PCs they are.
zaroth 9y ago
What they really need to do is maybe just start completely over on the whole Xbox Dashboard. For something that could be so simple and easy, the whole experience of trying to use the Xbox for anything other than playing a game is insanely frustrating. Every time I sit down to try to use it I'm just tearing my hair out! It's been, what, over a decade they've been working on that Dashboard and it has always been just a steaming pile of trash. Everything from initial setup trying to make accounts for the kids, to setting up payment methods, trying to switch between users constantly as things are authorized in one place or another, trying to install apps, constantly turning it on to find its forcing an hour of updates that must be installed to basically unbrick it. The media player app is insultingly bad. The App Store is a wasteland. The UI is a total train wreck. I went to install Amazon's app to stream some Prime shows last week. You would think probably some other people have tried to do this before, what could go wrong? What a mistake. App constantly crashing, took over an hour, including power cycling the Xbox twice before I get it to the point where I was actually watching a show. This for what is a < 5 minute process on a smartphone. Every time I try to do anything with that infernal machine, I just end up tearing my hair out. I really don't understand how they have millions of users and so much basic shit Just Doesn't Work. And don't get me started on the UI..... Everything I want to do buried the absolute maximum amount of clicks away from where I would expect to look for it. I try not to complain about it usually because it just gets my blood boiling how could MS put out such absolute garbage? Please tell me I'm not alone in feeling this way :-) The hardware rat race is great and all, but for a platform where they have Apple-esque control I would have expected two orders of magnitude better results than what MS has managed to deliver in 2017 for a living room experience.
- brosky117 9y ago
  100%. The UI is insanely difficult to use. I frequently find myself wondering how to do the most basic tasks. If it weren't for Halo, I'd be gone a long time ago.
  - supernovae 9y ago
    such as?
pwthornton 9y ago
I hope this is more than just putting out 4k games. Most people don't have 4k TVs, and, very importantly, for those that do, most don't have a big enough one for how far away they sit. I'm thinking of upgrading to a 65-inch OLED this year, and from my couch of about 10 feet away (maybe a hair closer), I won't be able to tell 1080p from 4k. And that's a pretty big TV! I would much rather see Scorpio games at 1080/60 fps with more effects, more polygons and more complex lighting.
- markdog12 9y ago
  This must be highly subjective, because for me, 65" 4k tv 10' away is like night and day to me compared to 1080p
  - blisse 9y ago
    There's no difference side-by-side between 1080p and 4K resolution if you're 5ft or further away from the TV[1], all else being equal. However, all else is rarely equal, and 4K TVs now have lots of other features and technology that make them just better (prettier) buys in general. [1] http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html
    - markdog12 9y ago
      > A person with 20/20 vision I'm honestly wondering if I'm an outlier and may have better than 20/20 vision. I would think it's pretty rare, but I have had people comment on my vision before. I work on a 17" 4k laptop screen with tiny text no prob.
    - lotso 9y ago
      Charts like this always get brought up, but I'm not sure there is much rigor in creating them.
  - pwthornton 9y ago
    At least with the 4k OLEDs, you are also getting HDR, way better contrast ratio, better colors, etc. So, you'll notice that, even if you don't notice the resolution difference. I am excited to see Xbox support HDR. I just hate to see all of this extra hardware dedicated to resolution, when there are so many things that it could be put to.
z0d 9y ago
The Xbox Scorpio SoC is RX480 again, Polaris chip on steroids - coupled with more GDDR5 6.8GHz@326GB/s BW vRAM 12GB with reserved to OS @1.5-2GB Plus a quad core Jaguar cluster added in with Vapor Chamber & full DX12 HW improvements. That should be a slightly OCed GTX 1060 level of perf looking from the specsheet, Plus they are banking on that DX12 due to the CPU being Jaguar still, Also the GCN HW of the AMD thus helping it to boost the ASync compute. Prev gen was also a RX480 based but cutdown chip less than cut down GM204 perf (<980M) And It did 4K forza which was a direct port from the Studio 10 to the Scorpio from XB1 @60FPS/~64% GPU usage, Mobile GTX 1070 and up should be still outperforming it & when it comes to proper optimized titles like BF1 / TF2 / TW3 / MEC etc will aid further to render more details, Also running old 4K forza on Console GFX options vs PC GFX options is not an apples to apples comparison. Note that TF figure on AMD and Nvidia aren't same either... Consoles can never reach PC levels of detailing due to the market and targeted audience. I'm a PC gamer, I can't stand to the degraded visuals on the Consoles, Also the Nvidia Tessellation is superior to AMD. Sad part is due to the % of market the PC games get downgraded / unoptimized mess due to these consoles Also the XB1Scorpio doesn't add any significant advantage over the PS4Pro because of less than stellar exlc. titles & Checkered board rendering used. Finally the native 4K@60Hz or 30 isn't out, I highly doubt an RX480 can run the games at 60FPS 4K, the power isn't just there for the recent games and upcoming powerful engines developed with Pascal HW will outperform this weak chip soon..
m-p-3 9y ago
Not mentioned in the article, but apparently it will also support AMD FreeSync. http://i.imgur.com/GUCJSAH.png http://i.imgur.com/GUCJSAH.png

158 points by anorborg 9y ago

Note: Eurogamer has the official exclusive for this information. The tech is incrementally better than the PS4 Pro, but the price is unknown and could be problematic if released at $499 compared to the PS4 Pro's $399. And whether developers will take full advantage of that power.

dontyouremember 9y ago
On paper it's incrementally better--significantly higher clocks, more RAM and much more memory bandwidth. But the bigger news is that all existing Xbox One games get 16x anisotropic filtering, framerate boosts, v-sync, and resolution bumps (if the game supports dynamic resolution). Not to mention system-wide downsampling for 1080p TV's. Should be a pretty big bump in image quality for Xbox One games. They demoed Forza running at 4k/60 FPS with PC Ultra-equivalent settings at less than 90% GPU load.
- thoughtpalette 9y ago
  Not sure why but some of your previous comments are showing up [dead] in the threads.
  - mlvljr 9y ago
    He's prolly one of those disgusting trolls!
  - thoughtpalette 9y ago
    Replying to the dead comment below, his post history looks great to me, which is why I felt compelled to point out the dead flag.
    - onli 9y ago
      OT, but I'll keep it short, and the user should now it is okay now: you are right. I vouched for the comment in this thread and that seems to have helped. Looking at the history, it's probably the anti-trump comment that got flagged.

blktiger 9y ago

It sounds like MS has been able to get a lot out of their hardware. It will be interesting to see how much it costs.

archeanthus 9y ago
I'm expecting to be along with predictions, being right around $500. I won't be surprise if it ends up being more, though.

Grazester 9y ago

Direct X CPU instruction that were handled by the CPU is now handled by the GPU! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE2hNrq1Zxs&feature=youtu.be&t=3m5s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE2hNrq1Zxs&feature=youtu.be...

monocasa 9y ago
Eh, that's not the biggest deal, it's basically always been like that on consoles, and that's the whole point of Mantle/Metal/Vulkan/DX12. ie. the fact that GPUs have MMUs these days, so user space can just write raw to the command buffer without being second guessed by the kernel drivers. The switch to DX12 is just that you can write the same sort of code on Windows and Xbone (the 360 had enough extensions that you sort of had to have separate rendering backends for 360 and Windows, despite them both potentially being DirectX 9).

dontyouremember 9y ago

I'm excited by the specs, especially given that Red Dead Redemption 2, Battlefront 2, Call of Duty WW2, and Destiny 2 are all hitting this holiday. Should be the best way to play those games. Although I wish they had more unique games coming out alongside that stuff. Playing Zelda on Switch is a good reminder that eye candy doesn't matter all that much after the novelty wears off.

BatFastard 9y ago

This should provide some amazing graphics on a 4K screen! The console programmers do some incredible feats with the resources they have available.

strictnein 9y ago
This 4k screenshot is really impressive, and as the benchmarks at the top show, there's lots of headroom: https://cdn.gamer-network.net/2017/screenshots/Forza-Tech-Screenshot.png https://cdn.gamer-network.net/2017/screenshots/Forza-Tech-Sc... Takes a minute to load, I think their cdn is a little overloaded currently.
- BatFastard 9y ago
  Great shot, 17 years ago I predicted that within 10 years you would not be able to tell the real from the computer generated. This is the first screen shot that qualifies IMHO, because this comes damn close to looking real.
  - strictnein 9y ago
    Unfortunately they didn't have a screenshot of Forza running at Ultra level settings, which is mentioned in the article as being achievable, because I think the line would be blurred even further.
    - pilom 9y ago
      I hope Ultra level settings add a fair bit b/c the aliasing on that screenshot is incredibly obvious everywhere but especially on the cables holding the starting lights and the barrier fences. It looks good but it isn't real by a long shot.
      - BatFastard 9y ago
        I see it when you mention it, but it did not standout for me by any means. And it might be an artifact if the image is being downsize automatically for you to view it (I know it was for me).

nlawalker 9y ago

If you own a PS4 or an X1 and the money to buy a PS4 Pro or Scorpio, it seems like the best move is to buy the upgrade of the platform you don't have. Then you've got access to both platforms' exclusives, and at least one new-spec machine for the games that aren't exclusive. I think the most interesting thing is going to see how compatibility works out long-term for Scorpio. What will the cross-compat story be for the next console, and the one after that? Will they re-platform and lose compatibility again (and bring it back via emulation) or keep re-spec'ing the current platform? When will we see games that will play on Scorpio but not X1?

snuxoll 9y ago
> If you own a PS4 or an X1 and the money to buy a PS4 Pro or Scorpio, it seems like the best move is to buy the upgrade of the platform you don't have. Then you've got access to both platforms' exclusives, and at least one new-spec machine for the games that aren't exclusive. As someone who owns both consoles, after seeing the lack of enthusiasm at the PS4 Pro launch event I decided to hold off until Scorpio specs became known - I much prefer the Xbox "experience" but outside of exclusives it never gets much use since my "high-fidelity" gaming goes on my PC, and "console exclusives" usually are better on the PS4 (looking at Final Fantasy XV in particular here). I'm glad I waited, there are games I want to play that are console exclusives but not tied to one platform or the other (Kingdom Hearts 3) - it looks like Microsoft hit this one out of the park. Seeing as the HDD in my OG Xbox One is going to fail soon (man is it noisy) the Scorpio looks like a good upgrade path. > I think the most interesting thing is going to see how compatibility works out long-term for Scorpio. What will the cross-compat story be for the next console, and the one after that? Will they re-platform and lose compatibility again (and bring it back via emulation) or keep re-spec'ing the current platform? When will we see games that will play on Scorpio but not X1? I believe the intent is that we are entering an era of smartphone-esque spec bumps to consoles, and getting rid of the full generational gap that has historically existed. From here on out, expect new hardware every couple years that will be compatible with your existing library - after existing hardware is X generations old it will stop receiving software support and you'll have to upgrade. Likely, when the Scorpio+1/2 is out you'll see the original Xbox One and Xbox One S losing support for some newer titles (but they'll likely continue receiving support from indie developers and less intense games along with system software updates for a while after that).

chocolatebunny 9y ago

Does anyone know anything about the "Hovis method" they reference for fine tuning the power profile for each chip? I'm having a tough time understanding how tweaking the voltage rails from board to board can improve power consumption/heat dissipation without impacting CPU performance.

Symmetry 9y ago
Normally, yes. Due to process variations each chip has a slightly different maximum frequency for a given voltage. Usually chip makers test each chip, sort them by how fast they can go at a standardized voltage, and sell the faster ones for more money under a different model number - sometimes also fusing off features like multi threading. It sounds like what Microsoft is doing is standardizing on frequency and giving different chips as much voltage as they need to hit their performance targets. So everybody buying one of these consoles gets the same performance but some people will have more power hungry consoles than others. Possibly those people will get better heat sinks?
- wlesieutre 9y ago
  Or same heatsink, different fan speed. Some people get a quieter one, and others sound like a jet engine.

andrewbarba 9y ago

Maybe I am completely off the marks here, and I'm sorry if this is off topic, but as someone who follows very closely what Apple is (or isn't?) doing in their Pro machines I am very curious how those specs compare to what everyone is asking for from Apple. The RAM is obviously low, fine, but it sounds like the CPU and GPU are significantly more capable than anything that Apple is shipping right now, and Microsoft will sell this thing at a fraction of the price that Apple will sell any pro hardware. What am I missing? Where is the big gap in component cost? How is something like an Xbox so different, and so much cheaper, than a pro level desktop?

mariusmg 9y ago
AMD vs Intel components is one part of the equation.
EpicEng 9y ago
I've never seen anything in an apple desktop that suggests they aren't ludicrously overpriced. You can piece together a monster of a desktop for 2k, so I don't get it either.
- EpicEng 9y ago
  If you're going to downvote I'd love to hear your reasoning. What about a Mac Pro justifies it's price?
83457 9y ago
Traditionally consoles are sold at a loss at first and the as components come down in price it evens out. Last gen though xbone and ps4 were essentially sold at cost. Most likely this is sold at cost and then they make money off of games. Apple needs to cover costs of OS and make a profit off of the computer alone and people are willing to pay a premium for Apple.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  > Traditionally consoles are sold at a loss at first That has not been the case since this generation, and even most Nintendo consoles were not sold at loss. the Wii was already profitable at launch, hardware and price-wise. Plus, looking at sites like iSupply is not a good estimation of the real cost of consoles, since manufacturers who order millions of parts do not pay the same price per component as consumers.

bhouston 9y ago

I suspect this is using the new Ryzen cores from AMD? If so then that by itself is a big performance boost.

strictnein 9y ago
They specifically state it is not. > "To be clear, then: Project Scorpio doesn't feature Ryzen cores, but the Xbox team are not so concerned about this. "On the CPU side of things, we could still meet our design goals with the custom changes we made," Kevin Gammill points out. "At the end of the day we are still a consumer product. We want to hit the price-points where consumers want to purchase this. It's about balancing the two.""

emdowling 9y ago

I'm glad we're seeing utilisation at the 66% level. That extra power is going to be mighty useful for VR. It's going to be really interesting to see what Microsoft reveal there. I have an Xbox One and a Switch. Personally, I love this combination and Scorpio could be a great upgrade depending on the VR story. While I do miss out on some PS4 games I'd love to play, I don't have enough hours to play the games I already have. The ideological gap between Switch and the rest of the industry is widening. No doubt the Switch is a cheaper platform to develop for (4K assets are a huge burden) but is that enough of a drawcard? Likewise, are consoles like Scorpio and PS4 Pro becoming too difficult and expensive to develop for, unless you are a AAA studio? The bar gets set so high that smaller studios will find it harder and harder to keep up. I can easily foresee a future where the Switch has an amazing selection of first party, Nintendo games and a killer catalogue of indies, whereas Xbox and PS4 own the third-party, AAA market.

nightski 9y ago
Actually it feels like the trend you are starting to see is that AAA studios can't even keep up (aka Mass Effect Andromeda, and other recent high profile releases). The graphics burden just seems too high that everything else suffers. But it's not all bad. I feel like, especially on the PC, smaller indie studios have been flourishing and some of the best games in recent times are not AAA nor graphical powerhouses.
- snuxoll 9y ago
  > Actually it feels like the trend you are starting to see is that AAA studios can't even keep up (aka Mass Effect Andromeda, and other recent high profile releases). The graphics burden just seems too high that everything else suffers. The problem with Andromeda was animations, not AAA graphical fidelity. I don't think many people are unhappy with the current level of flashy effects, we're mostly just looking at higher resolution assets (which likely exist already).
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

clhodapp 9y ago

Hrm, I can't help but think that despite this being only slightly more than Sony's PS4 Pro spec-wise, that difference is going to matter a lot because it seems to be the difference between being able to output (upscaled) 4k and being able to render 4k. We'll see if that turns out to be true when the Scorpio Xbox One actually launches (this kind of pre-release article is very prone to botching facts like this). If it does hold then this machine actually has some hope of switching the preferred platform for console games back over to Xbox One.

phonon 9y ago
Does it really make much of a difference? Even for large screen TV's, you would need to sit about 3-5 feet from a 4K TV to make out every pixel. 3k rendered, then upscaled to 4K should be pretty much indistinguishable to 99% of viewers.

Analemma_ 9y ago

It's interesting that, for the second time this week, a big company has given journalists an exclusive and sort of intimate look at their future roadmap instead of saving it for big keynote surprises. Between leaks making nothing ever a surprise anymore and the general jadedness at products never living up to their keynote claims, I wonder if this signals a kind of paradigm shift in "how to hype a product". Certainly all the Apple commentators seemed very pleased that Apple was breaking with their traditional radio silence, and this made me much more interested in Scorpio than I was recently, since I can see from a skeptical source that it's not just hot air.

KaoruAoiShiho 9y ago

This is MS admitting defeat for this gen and going for an early next gen. BC gives it the mid-gen excuse though. This is a good move though and will put Xbox back on the map.

supernovae 9y ago
So Sony admitted defeat and made the PS4 pro? I think more than anything, it's the fact 4k happened much quicker than expected..
- mikewhy 9y ago
  Maybe. My thought was that the release PS4/Xbone were still too far behind PCs
  - Narishma 9y ago
    People who buy consoles don't generally care how far behind PCs they are.

zaroth 9y ago

What they really need to do is maybe just start completely over on the whole Xbox Dashboard. For something that could be so simple and easy, the whole experience of trying to use the Xbox for anything other than playing a game is insanely frustrating. Every time I sit down to try to use it I'm just tearing my hair out! It's been, what, over a decade they've been working on that Dashboard and it has always been just a steaming pile of trash. Everything from initial setup trying to make accounts for the kids, to setting up payment methods, trying to switch between users constantly as things are authorized in one place or another, trying to install apps, constantly turning it on to find its forcing an hour of updates that must be installed to basically unbrick it. The media player app is insultingly bad. The App Store is a wasteland. The UI is a total train wreck. I went to install Amazon's app to stream some Prime shows last week. You would think probably some other people have tried to do this before, what could go wrong? What a mistake. App constantly crashing, took over an hour, including power cycling the Xbox twice before I get it to the point where I was actually watching a show. This for what is a < 5 minute process on a smartphone. Every time I try to do anything with that infernal machine, I just end up tearing my hair out. I really don't understand how they have millions of users and so much basic shit Just Doesn't Work. And don't get me started on the UI..... Everything I want to do buried the absolute maximum amount of clicks away from where I would expect to look for it. I try not to complain about it usually because it just gets my blood boiling how could MS put out such absolute garbage? Please tell me I'm not alone in feeling this way :-) The hardware rat race is great and all, but for a platform where they have Apple-esque control I would have expected two orders of magnitude better results than what MS has managed to deliver in 2017 for a living room experience.

brosky117 9y ago
100%. The UI is insanely difficult to use. I frequently find myself wondering how to do the most basic tasks. If it weren't for Halo, I'd be gone a long time ago.
- supernovae 9y ago
  such as?

pwthornton 9y ago

I hope this is more than just putting out 4k games. Most people don't have 4k TVs, and, very importantly, for those that do, most don't have a big enough one for how far away they sit. I'm thinking of upgrading to a 65-inch OLED this year, and from my couch of about 10 feet away (maybe a hair closer), I won't be able to tell 1080p from 4k. And that's a pretty big TV! I would much rather see Scorpio games at 1080/60 fps with more effects, more polygons and more complex lighting.

markdog12 9y ago
This must be highly subjective, because for me, 65" 4k tv 10' away is like night and day to me compared to 1080p
- blisse 9y ago
  There's no difference side-by-side between 1080p and 4K resolution if you're 5ft or further away from the TV[1], all else being equal. However, all else is rarely equal, and 4K TVs now have lots of other features and technology that make them just better (prettier) buys in general. [1] http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html
  - markdog12 9y ago
    > A person with 20/20 vision I'm honestly wondering if I'm an outlier and may have better than 20/20 vision. I would think it's pretty rare, but I have had people comment on my vision before. I work on a 17" 4k laptop screen with tiny text no prob.
  - lotso 9y ago
    Charts like this always get brought up, but I'm not sure there is much rigor in creating them.
- pwthornton 9y ago
  At least with the 4k OLEDs, you are also getting HDR, way better contrast ratio, better colors, etc. So, you'll notice that, even if you don't notice the resolution difference. I am excited to see Xbox support HDR. I just hate to see all of this extra hardware dedicated to resolution, when there are so many things that it could be put to.

z0d 9y ago

The Xbox Scorpio SoC is RX480 again, Polaris chip on steroids - coupled with more GDDR5 6.8GHz@326GB/s BW vRAM 12GB with reserved to OS @1.5-2GB Plus a quad core Jaguar cluster added in with Vapor Chamber & full DX12 HW improvements. That should be a slightly OCed GTX 1060 level of perf looking from the specsheet, Plus they are banking on that DX12 due to the CPU being Jaguar still, Also the GCN HW of the AMD thus helping it to boost the ASync compute. Prev gen was also a RX480 based but cutdown chip less than cut down GM204 perf (<980M) And It did 4K forza which was a direct port from the Studio 10 to the Scorpio from XB1 @60FPS/~64% GPU usage, Mobile GTX 1070 and up should be still outperforming it & when it comes to proper optimized titles like BF1 / TF2 / TW3 / MEC etc will aid further to render more details, Also running old 4K forza on Console GFX options vs PC GFX options is not an apples to apples comparison. Note that TF figure on AMD and Nvidia aren't same either... Consoles can never reach PC levels of detailing due to the market and targeted audience. I'm a PC gamer, I can't stand to the degraded visuals on the Consoles, Also the Nvidia Tessellation is superior to AMD. Sad part is due to the % of market the PC games get downgraded / unoptimized mess due to these consoles Also the XB1Scorpio doesn't add any significant advantage over the PS4Pro because of less than stellar exlc. titles & Checkered board rendering used. Finally the native 4K@60Hz or 30 isn't out, I highly doubt an RX480 can run the games at 60FPS 4K, the power isn't just there for the recent games and upcoming powerful engines developed with Pascal HW will outperform this weak chip soon..

m-p-3 9y ago

Not mentioned in the article, but apparently it will also support AMD FreeSync. http://i.imgur.com/GUCJSAH.png http://i.imgur.com/GUCJSAH.png