4 ms·

That is a very american perspective though. In Germany you are not allowed to fire someone for these reasons (you might be able to dismiss him for no reason at

by chki 10y ago

That is a very american perspective though. In Germany you are not allowed to fire someone for these reasons (you might be able to dismiss him for no reason at all but the contract will not be over for quite a long time) So the authority of a company firing somebody over not handing over their laptop can be reasonably questioned.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> That is a very american perspective though. Yes, and this case is between American parties, under American law, in the U.S. (of America) District Court for the Northern District of California.
- chki 10y ago
  I'm aware of that and just wanted to point out why this american perspective can be questioned, which was -in my opinion- the intend of "08-15".
WrtCdEvrydy 10y ago
As long as it's not discrimination based, you can fire someone for any reason. My boss could fire me for disliking the color of my T-Shirt this morning.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > As long as it's not discrimination based, you can fire someone for any reason. Every decision to choose one course of action over another is "discrimination-based"; you mean as long as it is not discrimination on an expressly-prohibited basis.
- johncolanduoni 10y ago
  That depends a lot on jurisdiction. It's not even true for every job/state combination in the US.
geofft 10y ago
But what are Germany's laws about discovery? This seems like a problem that would have occurred even before computers: if an executive is handwriting letters at home to engage in illegal activity for the benefit of their company, does a German court have authority to search the home? This is an American case, and it's being litigated in accordance with American law, so the judge is using American rules about employment to achieve the goal here. I would be surprised if there weren't some way to accomplish the same goal in Germany.
- matt4077 10y ago
  The comment you're replying to wasn't meant as a comment on the case, but to rebut the idea that "at-will employment" is some sort of universally-valid, natural state. It's just one of many possible answers, and every society has come up with their own. Regarding discovery, I must say that the US system is actually more advanced than Germany, where, in civil law, there isn't really a doctrine for recovering incriminating evidence (or otherwise compelling evidence) from the opposite side, apart from a few specific circumstances.

by chki 10y ago

dragonwriter 10y ago

> That is a very american perspective though. Yes, and this case is between American parties, under American law, in the U.S. (of America) District Court for the Northern District of California.

chki 10y ago
I'm aware of that and just wanted to point out why this american perspective can be questioned, which was -in my opinion- the intend of "08-15".

WrtCdEvrydy 10y ago

As long as it's not discrimination based, you can fire someone for any reason. My boss could fire me for disliking the color of my T-Shirt this morning.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> As long as it's not discrimination based, you can fire someone for any reason. Every decision to choose one course of action over another is "discrimination-based"; you mean as long as it is not discrimination on an expressly-prohibited basis.
johncolanduoni 10y ago
That depends a lot on jurisdiction. It's not even true for every job/state combination in the US.

geofft 10y ago

But what are Germany's laws about discovery? This seems like a problem that would have occurred even before computers: if an executive is handwriting letters at home to engage in illegal activity for the benefit of their company, does a German court have authority to search the home? This is an American case, and it's being litigated in accordance with American law, so the judge is using American rules about employment to achieve the goal here. I would be surprised if there weren't some way to accomplish the same goal in Germany.

matt4077 10y ago
The comment you're replying to wasn't meant as a comment on the case, but to rebut the idea that "at-will employment" is some sort of universally-valid, natural state. It's just one of many possible answers, and every society has come up with their own. Regarding discovery, I must say that the US system is actually more advanced than Germany, where, in civil law, there isn't really a doctrine for recovering incriminating evidence (or otherwise compelling evidence) from the opposite side, apart from a few specific circumstances.