4 ms·

I mean, can't it? California is an "at-will" employment state, right? They could presumably fire an employee for refusing to straight up burn their own house do

I mean, can't it? California is an "at-will" employment state, right? They could presumably fire an employee for refusing to straight up burn their own house down.

johncolanduoni 10y ago
As that would be arson I have some doubts it goes that far. It would be a very interesting whistleblowing case I suspect.
- taneq 10y ago
  But the whistleblowing would be for "trying to force an employee to commit arson", not for firing them.
  - johncolanduoni 10y ago
    It doesn't seem to be that simple in most US jurisdictions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment#Public_policy_exceptions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment#Public_poli...
ridgeguy 10y ago
That would constitute arson, and arson is a crime. It's not legal to procure criminal behavior, whether by an employment contract or by other coercive means.
- biot 10y ago
  Technically, arson is burning down someone else's property. It's not a criminal offence to burn down a house you own, though it is likely a non-criminal fire code violation.
  - ridgeguy 10y ago
    I don't think that's right. For example, in the California Penal Code, "A person is guilty of arson when he or she willfully and maliciously sets fire to or burns or causes to be burned or who aids, counsels, or procures the burning of, any structure, forest land, or property." [1] The incendiary's ownership or not of the property doesn't matter. [1] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=451 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio....
    - biot 10y ago
      From your link: For purposes of this paragraph, arson of property does not include one burning or causing to be burned his or her own personal property unless there is an intent to defraud or there is injury to another person or another person’s structure, forest land, or property.
      - ridgeguy 10y ago
        Thank you - I agree it turns on mens rea. Burning one's own property can be criminal arson, depending on intent or result.
        biot 10y ago
        Just as you'd expect. Whether the property in question are books you own, or a shed, or your entire house it's your property and it's not a crime to turn your property into a bonfire so long as doing so doesn't break other criminal laws.
mti 10y ago
That's what we call a "fired if you do, fired if you don't" kind of situation.

I mean, can't it? California is an "at-will" employment state, right? They could presumably fire an employee for refusing to straight up burn their own house down.

johncolanduoni 10y ago

As that would be arson I have some doubts it goes that far. It would be a very interesting whistleblowing case I suspect.

taneq 10y ago
But the whistleblowing would be for "trying to force an employee to commit arson", not for firing them.
- johncolanduoni 10y ago
  It doesn't seem to be that simple in most US jurisdictions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment#Public_policy_exceptions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment#Public_poli...

ridgeguy 10y ago

That would constitute arson, and arson is a crime. It's not legal to procure criminal behavior, whether by an employment contract or by other coercive means.

biot 10y ago
Technically, arson is burning down someone else's property. It's not a criminal offence to burn down a house you own, though it is likely a non-criminal fire code violation.
- ridgeguy 10y ago
  I don't think that's right. For example, in the California Penal Code, "A person is guilty of arson when he or she willfully and maliciously sets fire to or burns or causes to be burned or who aids, counsels, or procures the burning of, any structure, forest land, or property." [1] The incendiary's ownership or not of the property doesn't matter. [1] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=451 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio....
  - biot 10y ago
    From your link: For purposes of this paragraph, arson of property does not include one burning or causing to be burned his or her own personal property unless there is an intent to defraud or there is injury to another person or another person’s structure, forest land, or property.
    - ridgeguy 10y ago
      Thank you - I agree it turns on mens rea. Burning one's own property can be criminal arson, depending on intent or result.
      - biot 10y ago
        Just as you'd expect. Whether the property in question are books you own, or a shed, or your entire house it's your property and it's not a crime to turn your property into a bonfire so long as doing so doesn't break other criminal laws.

mti 10y ago

That's what we call a "fired if you do, fired if you don't" kind of situation.