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http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/06/30/countries-where-you-could-go-to-jail-for-calling-the-president-a-dick/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/06/30/countries-where-y

by sremani 10y ago

http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/06/30/countries-where-you-could-go-to-jail-for-calling-the-president-a-dick/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/06/30/countries-where-you-coul... Not condoning what's happening in Russia, just pointing out how prevalent similar practices are around the world.

tptacek 10y ago
Turkey, Poland, South Africa: these are parts of the same story, of a global rise in populism-exploiting authoritarian governments. Thailand, Iran: did we expect better? The only interesting example here is that you can get in trouble for calling Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands a "whore".
- mamon 10y ago
  Please don't call Poland "authoritarian" - in fact I would argue that we have more democracy and civil liberties than Germany (noone here is censoring newspapers which write unconvenient facts, like that about immigrants raping women), Sweden (you won't be arrested for criticizing government's immigration policy), UK (noone is trying to make encryption illegal), or USA (noone here is creating mass surveilance programs, or requiring you to provide all your online accounts with passwords on entry, or forfeiting your cash without even charging you with something). There's just normal, democratically elected government and a bunch of paranoid celebrities and journalists who make a lot of noise and FUD.
  - literallycancer 10y ago
    Normal democratically elected government? You are kidding, right? The only reason you aren't creating mass surveillance programs is that you can't afford it. Trying to ban abortion is fucked up enough, but what about the attempts to undermine the separation of powers? Oh and while I'm at it: the Polish government willingly hosted CIA black sites and facilitated abduction and torture of innocent people that haven't been charged with anything.
    - mamon 10y ago
      That abortion ban was in fact social initiative (some NGO got 100k signatures for their project) - government had nothing to do with it, and in fact they stopped it later in parliament. As for "separation of powers" the issues with Constitutional Court were in fact caused by the gaps in Polish Constitution that make it impossible to sort things out in case someone questions legality of appointing new judges (Constitutional Court judges are considered demi-gods in Polish legal system, they can even pass sentences in their own case, which is incredibly fucked up).
    - dang 10y ago
      Comments like this, that up the ante of both polarization and incivility, take HN threads in the wrong direction—in this case nationalistic flamewars, which we certainly don't need. Comments here need to go precisely the opposite way. If you can do that, please do; otherwise please don't post until you can.
      - literallycancer 10y ago
        You are right, I shouldn't have reacted that way. I just dislike people pushing their fringe politics here, when the audience mostly can't tell them apart. Note that I don't have anything against the Polish people, merely their current government.
  - Tomte 10y ago
    Please tell us who exactly is censoring newspapers in Germany?
  - cpach 10y ago
    No, criticizing the Swedish government’s immigration policy will not get you arrested.
    - gspetr 10y ago
      Sweden has a clear religious bias: a muslim imam can[1] be anti-gay, while a christian pastor cannot[2]. [1] http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-23/sweden-hate-speech-just-imams http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-23/sweden-hate-speech-... [2] http://www.christianheadlines.com/columnists/al-mohler/criminalizing-christianity-swedens-hate-speech-law-1277601.html http://www.christianheadlines.com/columnists/al-mohler/crimi...
      - cpach 10y ago
        What has that got do with the current topic? Åke Green was not charged for critizing the government, but for denigrating homosexuals. And the article you cited does not mention that he was aquitted by the Supreme Court of Sweden.
  - szatkus 10y ago
    A teacher in Poland fired for sharing WOŚP video on Facebook. We can exchange anecdotes all day.
- skc 10y ago
  Why on earth would you include South Africa in your list? You can call the South African president whatever you like as many have and currently do with no repercussions as is your right.
- literallycancer 10y ago
  IANAL, but I wouldn't expect harsher penalties than those for regular defamation. Getting into more trouble for insulting the queen than someone else would mean that there is no equality before the law, and I wouldn't expect the judgement to hold if taken to ECHR. A cursory googling reveals that the ECHR decides mostly based on whether the limitation to the freedom of speech is necessary and/or proportionate.[1] 1 - http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Reputation_ENG.pdf http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Reputation_ENG.pdf
- Tomte 10y ago
  Poland stands out because it's EU, and the Eu is supposed to be better. But since the EU didn't do much when Hungary started their quasi-dictatorial tendencies, there's not much to do about Poland, if only because two bad apples mean there will never be unanimous agreement about any of the two.
- szatkus 10y ago
  In Poland that law exists since '90, when the goverment was less populistic.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
nikcub 10y ago
I've watched a lot of Putin and this is exactly how he is going to defend this law at his next q&a. He'll say most countries, even liberal democracies, have laws that regulate certain types of speech - such as insults in Germany, racism in France, insults in Australia, libel laws in the UK etc. - Russia is no different, we just have different sensibilities. When the gay propaganda law was bought in, he used pretty much the same argument - that it isn't a law against gays, but rather a law to protect the 'human dignity' of the majority of citizens. He wouldn't be completely wrong - which is why free speech needs to be all or nothing. The slippery slope when you start carving out exemptions is very real, and not only applies to those nations but is used in justifying the actions of others.
- Tomte 10y ago
  Free Speech in the US isn't "all", either, but besides that I would argue that the US don't need to be afraid of a slippery slope, they've already slipped right off into "how could anyone think that's a good idea" territory.

by sremani 10y ago

tptacek 10y ago

Turkey, Poland, South Africa: these are parts of the same story, of a global rise in populism-exploiting authoritarian governments. Thailand, Iran: did we expect better? The only interesting example here is that you can get in trouble for calling Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands a "whore".

mamon 10y ago
Please don't call Poland "authoritarian" - in fact I would argue that we have more democracy and civil liberties than Germany (noone here is censoring newspapers which write unconvenient facts, like that about immigrants raping women), Sweden (you won't be arrested for criticizing government's immigration policy), UK (noone is trying to make encryption illegal), or USA (noone here is creating mass surveilance programs, or requiring you to provide all your online accounts with passwords on entry, or forfeiting your cash without even charging you with something). There's just normal, democratically elected government and a bunch of paranoid celebrities and journalists who make a lot of noise and FUD.
- literallycancer 10y ago
  Normal democratically elected government? You are kidding, right? The only reason you aren't creating mass surveillance programs is that you can't afford it. Trying to ban abortion is fucked up enough, but what about the attempts to undermine the separation of powers? Oh and while I'm at it: the Polish government willingly hosted CIA black sites and facilitated abduction and torture of innocent people that haven't been charged with anything.
  - mamon 10y ago
    That abortion ban was in fact social initiative (some NGO got 100k signatures for their project) - government had nothing to do with it, and in fact they stopped it later in parliament. As for "separation of powers" the issues with Constitutional Court were in fact caused by the gaps in Polish Constitution that make it impossible to sort things out in case someone questions legality of appointing new judges (Constitutional Court judges are considered demi-gods in Polish legal system, they can even pass sentences in their own case, which is incredibly fucked up).
  - dang 10y ago
    Comments like this, that up the ante of both polarization and incivility, take HN threads in the wrong direction—in this case nationalistic flamewars, which we certainly don't need. Comments here need to go precisely the opposite way. If you can do that, please do; otherwise please don't post until you can.
    - literallycancer 10y ago
      You are right, I shouldn't have reacted that way. I just dislike people pushing their fringe politics here, when the audience mostly can't tell them apart. Note that I don't have anything against the Polish people, merely their current government.
- Tomte 10y ago
  Please tell us who exactly is censoring newspapers in Germany?
- cpach 10y ago
  No, criticizing the Swedish government’s immigration policy will not get you arrested.
  - gspetr 10y ago
    Sweden has a clear religious bias: a muslim imam can[1] be anti-gay, while a christian pastor cannot[2]. [1] http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-23/sweden-hate-speech-just-imams http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-23/sweden-hate-speech-... [2] http://www.christianheadlines.com/columnists/al-mohler/criminalizing-christianity-swedens-hate-speech-law-1277601.html http://www.christianheadlines.com/columnists/al-mohler/crimi...
    - cpach 10y ago
      What has that got do with the current topic? Åke Green was not charged for critizing the government, but for denigrating homosexuals. And the article you cited does not mention that he was aquitted by the Supreme Court of Sweden.
- szatkus 10y ago
  A teacher in Poland fired for sharing WOŚP video on Facebook. We can exchange anecdotes all day.
skc 10y ago
Why on earth would you include South Africa in your list? You can call the South African president whatever you like as many have and currently do with no repercussions as is your right.
literallycancer 10y ago
IANAL, but I wouldn't expect harsher penalties than those for regular defamation. Getting into more trouble for insulting the queen than someone else would mean that there is no equality before the law, and I wouldn't expect the judgement to hold if taken to ECHR. A cursory googling reveals that the ECHR decides mostly based on whether the limitation to the freedom of speech is necessary and/or proportionate.[1] 1 - http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Reputation_ENG.pdf http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Reputation_ENG.pdf
Tomte 10y ago
Poland stands out because it's EU, and the Eu is supposed to be better. But since the EU didn't do much when Hungary started their quasi-dictatorial tendencies, there's not much to do about Poland, if only because two bad apples mean there will never be unanimous agreement about any of the two.
szatkus 10y ago
In Poland that law exists since '90, when the goverment was less populistic.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

nikcub 10y ago

I've watched a lot of Putin and this is exactly how he is going to defend this law at his next q&a. He'll say most countries, even liberal democracies, have laws that regulate certain types of speech - such as insults in Germany, racism in France, insults in Australia, libel laws in the UK etc. - Russia is no different, we just have different sensibilities. When the gay propaganda law was bought in, he used pretty much the same argument - that it isn't a law against gays, but rather a law to protect the 'human dignity' of the majority of citizens. He wouldn't be completely wrong - which is why free speech needs to be all or nothing. The slippery slope when you start carving out exemptions is very real, and not only applies to those nations but is used in justifying the actions of others.

Tomte 10y ago
Free Speech in the US isn't "all", either, but besides that I would argue that the US don't need to be afraid of a slippery slope, they've already slipped right off into "how could anyone think that's a good idea" territory.