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"Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence" Translation: "We don't really care that much about Linux on the desktop because it's not

"Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence" Translation: "We don't really care that much about Linux on the desktop because it's not making us much $$$." Dear Canonical, Your actions are a huge let down to the community. You caused a lot of strife with the move away from Gnome to Unity in 2010, and now you're ripping the rug out from under even more users after feeding us crap about convergence, etc. for the past 4-5 years (?). Nobody asked you to do any of that phone or convergence stuff, but peddling it like it's the next big thing and then pulling it without ever even really shipping a working product is just amateurish and make the whole FOSS community look bad. You and FOSS companies like you - please stop. Next time you have an idea that's going to be the next "big thing" or a "world-changing paradigm shift", ship something before you start hyping it to the tech press. Ubuntu Touch/Unity 8 is just the latest in a long line of embarrassing open-source let downs that took enormous amounts of time and energy away from the community with absolutely nothing to show for it. Signed, A disappointed ex-Ubuntu user

kleiba 10y ago
1. You say that Canonical's move from Gnome to Unity in 2010 caused a lot of strife. 2. Now they're undoing that step. Shouldn't you be happy rather than disappointed?
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  Why not both? I'm happy they are dropping it, but disappointed that they started altogether. That's a lot of time we as a community could have been working together, but weren't. I can be disappointed in those "lost" years, but happy that we're done with them.
- tradesmanhelix 10y ago
  Yeah, I can understand how that's confusing. I meant to convey two things: 1. I mean to imply that it was a waste - they created a bunch of controversy, and for what? If they were not committed to Unity for the long-haul, they should never had made the switch away from Gnome in the first place. 2. In the intervening years since 2010, a ton of people have come to use Unity and gotten used to it instead of Gnome, and now Canonical is pulling the rug out from under those people. This whiplash, knee-jerk approach is just a horrible way to treat your users and is very disappointing. This behavior reminds me of MS forcing Metro UI on people in Windows 8 for years and then (mostly) abandoning it without ceremony in Win 10. I don't expect MS to care about anything other than the bottom line, but I had hoped for more from Canonical.
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    >"I mean to imply that it was a waste - they created a bunch of controversy, and for what? If they were not committed to Unity for the long-haul, they should never had made the switch away from Gnome in the first place." So in general if someone recognises they've made a mistake, they should continue on making that same mistake regardless? >"In the intervening years since 2010, a ton of people have come to use Unity and gotten used to it instead of Gnome, and now Canonical is pulling the rug out from under those people. This whiplash, knee-jerk approach is just a horrible way to treat your users and is very disappointing." If enough people want it, Unity can continue to exist as a community-led project, just like how GNOME 2 got saved by MATE.
    - tradesmanhelix 10y ago
      > So in general if someone recognises they've made a mistake, they should continue on making that same mistake regardless? Doesn't sound to me like Canonical is admitting a mistake. Quote from OP: "This has been, personally, a very difficult decision, because of the force of my conviction in the convergence future, and my personal engagement with the people and the product, both of which are amazing." (emphasis added) My point is that Canonical's behavior, both in 2010 and now, is bad corporate citizenship. They're showing very little regard for their users and their community. > If enough people want it, Unity can continue to exist as a community-led project, just like how GNOME 2 got saved by MATE. Honestly, I hope that doesn't happen. If convergence and Ubuntu Phone aren't happening, I'd rather see the resources go into other DEs that already have a strong community like KDE, GNOME, or MATE.
dullgiulio 10y ago
I think you are conflating problems a bit too much. 1. Canonical must worry about the bottom line. It is a company before being a "FOSS company." 2. You are accusing Canonical of hyping before shipping. But also complaining that they did ship Unity and it was "a lot of strife". Either, or. I think Canonical is doing what many other companies in technology do: try to catch an opportunity to become a de-facto standard. Becoming so is very difficult. Canonical has failed with Launchpad and now with Unity convergence. But one cannot say they didn't try. Unity in particular is pretty good for daily usage (my opinion) and version 8 looked very promising, at least in the showcases. We cannot always have our cake and eat it too.
- tradesmanhelix 10y ago
  1. Agreed. However, it looks really bad for them as a company to behave this way toward their users, both back in 2010 when they moved away from Gnome and now in 2017 when they're moving back. Both moves have been done without regard for and without consulting with the community. For a FOSS company, that's bad business and I think it will hurt their bottom line in the long run. 2. I think these are two unrelated points. To clarify: a. Canonical hyped Convergence and Ubuntu Phone, but never delivered on the hype. That's bad, both for their company image as well as for the entire FOSS community as a whole. It makes us seem like a joke. b. They shipped Unity. Now, they're trying to un-ship it. They've handled the entire situation very poorly. Not upset that they did ship, just saddened by the way the entire situation was handled. I would argue that Ubuntu is the de-facto standard for cloud and IOT. They've achieved a ton of success in becoming a standard at least there. No one is saying that didn't try. What I'm asking is: Should the community give Canonical a gold star for trying? Will opponents of FOSS software? I don't think so, because overall the failed hype around Ubuntu Phone and Convergence just looks bad and I think Canonical has handled the entire situation since 2010 very poorly. Not sure I quite understand what you mean by, "We cannot always have our cake and eat it too." Personally, I just wanted Canonical to follow through with the hype and deliver on Convergence and Ubuntu Phone.
deleted 10y ago
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kleiba 10y ago

1. You say that Canonical's move from Gnome to Unity in 2010 caused a lot of strife. 2. Now they're undoing that step. Shouldn't you be happy rather than disappointed?

CaptSpify 10y ago
Why not both? I'm happy they are dropping it, but disappointed that they started altogether. That's a lot of time we as a community could have been working together, but weren't. I can be disappointed in those "lost" years, but happy that we're done with them.
tradesmanhelix 10y ago
Yeah, I can understand how that's confusing. I meant to convey two things: 1. I mean to imply that it was a waste - they created a bunch of controversy, and for what? If they were not committed to Unity for the long-haul, they should never had made the switch away from Gnome in the first place. 2. In the intervening years since 2010, a ton of people have come to use Unity and gotten used to it instead of Gnome, and now Canonical is pulling the rug out from under those people. This whiplash, knee-jerk approach is just a horrible way to treat your users and is very disappointing. This behavior reminds me of MS forcing Metro UI on people in Windows 8 for years and then (mostly) abandoning it without ceremony in Win 10. I don't expect MS to care about anything other than the bottom line, but I had hoped for more from Canonical.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  >"I mean to imply that it was a waste - they created a bunch of controversy, and for what? If they were not committed to Unity for the long-haul, they should never had made the switch away from Gnome in the first place." So in general if someone recognises they've made a mistake, they should continue on making that same mistake regardless? >"In the intervening years since 2010, a ton of people have come to use Unity and gotten used to it instead of Gnome, and now Canonical is pulling the rug out from under those people. This whiplash, knee-jerk approach is just a horrible way to treat your users and is very disappointing." If enough people want it, Unity can continue to exist as a community-led project, just like how GNOME 2 got saved by MATE.
  - tradesmanhelix 10y ago
    > So in general if someone recognises they've made a mistake, they should continue on making that same mistake regardless? Doesn't sound to me like Canonical is admitting a mistake. Quote from OP: "This has been, personally, a very difficult decision, because of the force of my conviction in the convergence future, and my personal engagement with the people and the product, both of which are amazing." (emphasis added) My point is that Canonical's behavior, both in 2010 and now, is bad corporate citizenship. They're showing very little regard for their users and their community. > If enough people want it, Unity can continue to exist as a community-led project, just like how GNOME 2 got saved by MATE. Honestly, I hope that doesn't happen. If convergence and Ubuntu Phone aren't happening, I'd rather see the resources go into other DEs that already have a strong community like KDE, GNOME, or MATE.

dullgiulio 10y ago

I think you are conflating problems a bit too much. 1. Canonical must worry about the bottom line. It is a company before being a "FOSS company." 2. You are accusing Canonical of hyping before shipping. But also complaining that they did ship Unity and it was "a lot of strife". Either, or. I think Canonical is doing what many other companies in technology do: try to catch an opportunity to become a de-facto standard. Becoming so is very difficult. Canonical has failed with Launchpad and now with Unity convergence. But one cannot say they didn't try. Unity in particular is pretty good for daily usage (my opinion) and version 8 looked very promising, at least in the showcases. We cannot always have our cake and eat it too.

tradesmanhelix 10y ago
1. Agreed. However, it looks really bad for them as a company to behave this way toward their users, both back in 2010 when they moved away from Gnome and now in 2017 when they're moving back. Both moves have been done without regard for and without consulting with the community. For a FOSS company, that's bad business and I think it will hurt their bottom line in the long run. 2. I think these are two unrelated points. To clarify: a. Canonical hyped Convergence and Ubuntu Phone, but never delivered on the hype. That's bad, both for their company image as well as for the entire FOSS community as a whole. It makes us seem like a joke. b. They shipped Unity. Now, they're trying to un-ship it. They've handled the entire situation very poorly. Not upset that they did ship, just saddened by the way the entire situation was handled. I would argue that Ubuntu is the de-facto standard for cloud and IOT. They've achieved a ton of success in becoming a standard at least there. No one is saying that didn't try. What I'm asking is: Should the community give Canonical a gold star for trying? Will opponents of FOSS software? I don't think so, because overall the failed hype around Ubuntu Phone and Convergence just looks bad and I think Canonical has handled the entire situation since 2010 very poorly. Not sure I quite understand what you mean by, "We cannot always have our cake and eat it too." Personally, I just wanted Canonical to follow through with the hype and deliver on Convergence and Ubuntu Phone.

deleted 10y ago

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