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> We will shift our default Ubuntu desktop back to GNOME for Ubuntu 18.04 LTS This is huge and was my #1 request for the previous post for Ubuntu 17.10. Gnome

> We will shift our default Ubuntu desktop back to GNOME for Ubuntu 18.04 LTS This is huge and was my #1 request for the previous post for Ubuntu 17.10. Gnome on Fedora is amazing and I have had people walk up to me and ask me - what OS am I running ? It is so much better for Ubuntu and Redhat to have joint stewardship of Gnome going forward rather than split energy on wasted competition. My next biggest request is flatpak vs snappy - I cant believe that the package management wars are beginning all over again in 2017. Just pick one and be done with it. RPM and DEB will never converge, but we have a narrow window of opportunity with flatpak and snappy.

geodel 10y ago
Flatpak seems more limited in scope as documents say: > Can Flatpak be used on servers too? Flatpak is designed to run inside a desktop session and relies on certain session services, such as a dbus session bus and a systemd --user instance. This makes Flatpak not a good match for a server. Whereas Snap documents say: Package any app for every Linux desktop, server, cloud or device, and deliver updates directly.
- sandGorgon 10y ago
  I know - however these things are seldom demarcated on merit and more on ideology. I wish the next generation of linux has a single package manager :(
  - geodel 10y ago
    I think in case of Snap, it is part of money making server business. So it is less likely Canonical is going to give up on that.
    - jononor 10y ago
      But then you're competing with Docker images. Not that Docker is that amazing, but I just don't see why anyone would want to use Snap instead of Docker?
      - mwj 10y ago
        Containers are for a completely different use case than system packages.
        wmf 10y ago
        CoreOS and RancherOS have shown how everything can either be built into the base OS image or running in Docker, with no system packages needed.
        darkr 10y ago
        I think this had been shown somewhat before the time of these whippersnapper distros (Slackware, LFS etc), indeed before the days of RPM, make && make install directly on production servers were how things were done.. and it was not good. Also; in the case of CoreOS, the base image is still built using a package manager (portage). Not sure about that other guy.
      - geodel 10y ago
        I am not sure e.g. how docker image is better for openoffice or eclipse/intellij idea and so on for desktop. I think Snap fits usecase much better. May be multiple snaps combined to create a service/image for a server.
    - moosingin3space 10y ago
      (Disclaimer: I don't work for Canonical, I just use Ubuntu for my work.) I think it will end up like so: * apt/dpkg will remain the base packaging software on desktop and server. They're well-tested and familiar. * flatpak will become the primary format for installing desktop software outside of repo. This'll be nice for some large open-source projects that cause grief for distro packagers, and will also give companies a single target for major Linux desktops. Flatpak is too narrowly-targeted to replace snap in all cases snap was designed for. * snap will become a mechanism for image-based application deployment, primarily IoT. * docker/lxd/whatever will be used to target immutable deployments, primarily servers.
  - smilliken 10y ago
    > I wish the next generation of linux has a single package manager :( Package management used to be my biggest frustration with computers. A couple years ago, I switched to nix [1][2] and now use it across all my unix-like systems (not sure how well it works on Windows, I haven't tried). Most under-rated piece of software I use, I'm surprised it hasn't blown up yet. [1] http://nixos.org/nix/ http://nixos.org/nix/ [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10714102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10714102
    - sandGorgon 10y ago
      i have the greatest of respect for nix and 0install - however its an inexorable fact that I would like a mainstream, fully supported OS on my desktop - which is either Fedora or Ubuntu. Let me flip this question - what does nix have that snap or flatpak does not ? From what I have read, they are pretty much the same.
      - smilliken 10y ago
        I run Ubuntu primarily, and forgo apt-get in favor of nix. I've never run NixOS before (some day..). I haven't used flatpak or snap before, but the comment I linked outlines a lot of the benefits I see with nix. Conceptually it's more like Make + a package manager, if Make were a (well designed) pure functional language and wasn't afflicted with grotesque generated code.
unethical_ban 10y ago
Heck, I'm not an old fuddy-duddy per se, but I rejected Fedora after 10 minutes with GNOME 3. Went back to Unity. Guess I need to have some more patience.

geodel 10y ago

Flatpak seems more limited in scope as documents say: > Can Flatpak be used on servers too? Flatpak is designed to run inside a desktop session and relies on certain session services, such as a dbus session bus and a systemd --user instance. This makes Flatpak not a good match for a server. Whereas Snap documents say: Package any app for every Linux desktop, server, cloud or device, and deliver updates directly.

sandGorgon 10y ago
I know - however these things are seldom demarcated on merit and more on ideology. I wish the next generation of linux has a single package manager :(
- geodel 10y ago
  I think in case of Snap, it is part of money making server business. So it is less likely Canonical is going to give up on that.
  - jononor 10y ago
    But then you're competing with Docker images. Not that Docker is that amazing, but I just don't see why anyone would want to use Snap instead of Docker?
    - mwj 10y ago
      Containers are for a completely different use case than system packages.
      - wmf 10y ago
        CoreOS and RancherOS have shown how everything can either be built into the base OS image or running in Docker, with no system packages needed.
        darkr 10y ago
        I think this had been shown somewhat before the time of these whippersnapper distros (Slackware, LFS etc), indeed before the days of RPM, make && make install directly on production servers were how things were done.. and it was not good. Also; in the case of CoreOS, the base image is still built using a package manager (portage). Not sure about that other guy.
    - geodel 10y ago
      I am not sure e.g. how docker image is better for openoffice or eclipse/intellij idea and so on for desktop. I think Snap fits usecase much better. May be multiple snaps combined to create a service/image for a server.
  - moosingin3space 10y ago
    (Disclaimer: I don't work for Canonical, I just use Ubuntu for my work.) I think it will end up like so: * apt/dpkg will remain the base packaging software on desktop and server. They're well-tested and familiar. * flatpak will become the primary format for installing desktop software outside of repo. This'll be nice for some large open-source projects that cause grief for distro packagers, and will also give companies a single target for major Linux desktops. Flatpak is too narrowly-targeted to replace snap in all cases snap was designed for. * snap will become a mechanism for image-based application deployment, primarily IoT. * docker/lxd/whatever will be used to target immutable deployments, primarily servers.
- smilliken 10y ago
  > I wish the next generation of linux has a single package manager :( Package management used to be my biggest frustration with computers. A couple years ago, I switched to nix [1][2] and now use it across all my unix-like systems (not sure how well it works on Windows, I haven't tried). Most under-rated piece of software I use, I'm surprised it hasn't blown up yet. [1] http://nixos.org/nix/ http://nixos.org/nix/ [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10714102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10714102
  - sandGorgon 10y ago
    i have the greatest of respect for nix and 0install - however its an inexorable fact that I would like a mainstream, fully supported OS on my desktop - which is either Fedora or Ubuntu. Let me flip this question - what does nix have that snap or flatpak does not ? From what I have read, they are pretty much the same.
    - smilliken 10y ago
      I run Ubuntu primarily, and forgo apt-get in favor of nix. I've never run NixOS before (some day..). I haven't used flatpak or snap before, but the comment I linked outlines a lot of the benefits I see with nix. Conceptually it's more like Make + a package manager, if Make were a (well designed) pure functional language and wasn't afflicted with grotesque generated code.

unethical_ban 10y ago

Heck, I'm not an old fuddy-duddy per se, but I rejected Fedora after 10 minutes with GNOME 3. Went back to Unity. Guess I need to have some more patience.