5 ms·

I used to love eating octopus particularly in sashimi form or nigiri, after learning more about their intelligence and behaviours I find my self increasingly un

I used to love eating octopus particularly in sashimi form or nigiri, after learning more about their intelligence and behaviours I find my self increasingly unable to eat them... While I understand why I have developed this response in respect to a relatively intelligent animal... it's a shame because they really are so damn tasty. In other words I totally get the dolphins.

semi-extrinsic 10y ago
I'm not one to judge either way, but I think it's very weird how we have aversions towards eating "intelligent animals" like whales or octopi, while no-one bats an eye at the large-scale slaughter and eating of clearly intelligent mammals that form tight-knit communities and show very complex behaviour like empathy, reasoning about and solving puzzles, even the ability to play simple computer games via joystick - I'm talking about pigs.
- macintux 10y ago
  Clearly "no one" is an falsehood. Besides the ethical vegetarians, there are a fair number of us who are troubled by pigs in particular. Whales and octopuses, I think, also fit the "animals we know to live in threatened conditions" criteria many of us apply to deciding who to eat.
  - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
    Sure, I agree, s/no one/most people/. The "threatened conditions" is a bit more debatable, e.g. the minke whales that are being caught today by Icelandic and Norwegian whaling are of the same endangerment status as e.g. moose and wild boar - "Least Concern". Also Greenpeace et al. use quite a bit of disingenious reporting, e.g. talking about Icelandic fishing of "endangered whales" when those whales aren't actually endangered in the oceans where the Icelandic vessels fish, but literally on the other side of the earth. (I'm not particularly pro-whaling either, just food for thought.) Octopi are even less endangered, the two large species are not on any conservation list.
    - macintux 10y ago
      Note I said environment, not the species themselves (yet). The fact that we're dramatically changing (arguably wrecking) the ocean seems indisputable.
- LordKano 10y ago
  I find the hypocrisy amusing. There are people who go apoplectic over dog eating in some parts of Asia but have no problem with pig eating in the west. Pigs have a similar level of intelligence to dogs but it's ok to grow, slaughter, butcher, cook and eat the pig.
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    I call those specific people on their hypocrisy when possible. My brothers even had a pot-belly pig as a house pet at one point. They said it acted basically like a dog in terms of personality. So, unethical to kill dogs but not smart animals that act like dogs? Ha...
  - flukus 10y ago
    I think it's because we've mostly had a master-slave relationship with pigs, but dogs have always been a (lob-sided) partnership. The other aversion is the efficiency of dogs as food, being carnivores it takes a lot more resources to raise dogs for food than it does for pigs. Any society that went for dogs were going to get out competed.
  - jquery 10y ago
    Moral values aren't necessarily utilitarian, culture and human nature is wrapped up in it. Babies have a similar intelligence to pigs but people who eat babies are considered kind of jerks. Even if you're the mother who made the baby it's frowned on to eat the baby. And it's sort of interesting you bring up Asia considering that the outrage over Asians eating dog meat is much greater in Asia than it is in the West. Dogs are more and more seen as pets and not fit for consumption. Worldwide, dog meat consumption has trended sharply downward. I eat bacon. Does that make me a hypocrite? I guess. Is that an accusation likely to make me start eating dogs or stop eating bacon? No.
    - LordKano 10y ago
      I, likewise, eat pork and am not likely to start eating dog but I don't condemn people who do it. It has been done in their cultures for centuries, I don't have the kind of hubris to think that my culinary customs should be everyone's.

semi-extrinsic 10y ago

I'm not one to judge either way, but I think it's very weird how we have aversions towards eating "intelligent animals" like whales or octopi, while no-one bats an eye at the large-scale slaughter and eating of clearly intelligent mammals that form tight-knit communities and show very complex behaviour like empathy, reasoning about and solving puzzles, even the ability to play simple computer games via joystick - I'm talking about pigs.

macintux 10y ago
Clearly "no one" is an falsehood. Besides the ethical vegetarians, there are a fair number of us who are troubled by pigs in particular. Whales and octopuses, I think, also fit the "animals we know to live in threatened conditions" criteria many of us apply to deciding who to eat.
- semi-extrinsic 10y ago
  Sure, I agree, s/no one/most people/. The "threatened conditions" is a bit more debatable, e.g. the minke whales that are being caught today by Icelandic and Norwegian whaling are of the same endangerment status as e.g. moose and wild boar - "Least Concern". Also Greenpeace et al. use quite a bit of disingenious reporting, e.g. talking about Icelandic fishing of "endangered whales" when those whales aren't actually endangered in the oceans where the Icelandic vessels fish, but literally on the other side of the earth. (I'm not particularly pro-whaling either, just food for thought.) Octopi are even less endangered, the two large species are not on any conservation list.
  - macintux 10y ago
    Note I said environment, not the species themselves (yet). The fact that we're dramatically changing (arguably wrecking) the ocean seems indisputable.
LordKano 10y ago
I find the hypocrisy amusing. There are people who go apoplectic over dog eating in some parts of Asia but have no problem with pig eating in the west. Pigs have a similar level of intelligence to dogs but it's ok to grow, slaughter, butcher, cook and eat the pig.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  I call those specific people on their hypocrisy when possible. My brothers even had a pot-belly pig as a house pet at one point. They said it acted basically like a dog in terms of personality. So, unethical to kill dogs but not smart animals that act like dogs? Ha...
- flukus 10y ago
  I think it's because we've mostly had a master-slave relationship with pigs, but dogs have always been a (lob-sided) partnership. The other aversion is the efficiency of dogs as food, being carnivores it takes a lot more resources to raise dogs for food than it does for pigs. Any society that went for dogs were going to get out competed.
- jquery 10y ago
  Moral values aren't necessarily utilitarian, culture and human nature is wrapped up in it. Babies have a similar intelligence to pigs but people who eat babies are considered kind of jerks. Even if you're the mother who made the baby it's frowned on to eat the baby. And it's sort of interesting you bring up Asia considering that the outrage over Asians eating dog meat is much greater in Asia than it is in the West. Dogs are more and more seen as pets and not fit for consumption. Worldwide, dog meat consumption has trended sharply downward. I eat bacon. Does that make me a hypocrite? I guess. Is that an accusation likely to make me start eating dogs or stop eating bacon? No.
  - LordKano 10y ago
    I, likewise, eat pork and am not likely to start eating dog but I don't condemn people who do it. It has been done in their cultures for centuries, I don't have the kind of hubris to think that my culinary customs should be everyone's.