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> Perhaps one day, thousands of years from now, technologically advanced dolphins will one day watch us doing the same thing again, and they will have a similar

> Perhaps one day, thousands of years from now, technologically advanced dolphins will one day watch us doing the same thing again, and they will have a similar article about us! I'd be curious to know how much of human technical advancement was thanks to the ability to relatively easily smelt metal, and whether the inability to easily smelt underwater creates an impediment to technical advancement of species living underwater.

maxerickson 10y ago
Humans were doing pretty good already in the late stone age.
- stcredzero 10y ago
  An ocean environment would wreak havoc or greatly inconvenience on all of the materials of stone age technology.
stcredzero 10y ago
Seawater also plays hell with ropes and hide. You can't construct with stone, because it sinks to the bottom, and the silty bottom is a rotten foundation. You can't build with wood because it floats away, it will soften and weather quickly, and things will eat it quickly. You can't wear tools, as that ruins your streamlining, and fast swimmers will generate high drag forces on anything they wear. The ocean isn't a good place for tool building!
- landryraccoon 10y ago
  Perhaps in a future age, spacefaring civilizations will say the same thing about primitive life forms living at the bottom of gravity wells. How can you get anywhere with so much gravity holding you down?
  - stcredzero 10y ago
    You can still build edged tools, weapons, clocks, and computers at the bottom of a gravity well. Being aquatic is completely different -- the environment often keeps you from evolving manipulators for building tools. Even if you evolve the manipulators, the environment automatically degrades the value of the tools.
- xherberta 10y ago
  Interesting thought! On the other hand, what is the point of building stuff if you don't need protection from rain and snow, vast swaths of ocean are just the right temperature for you, you can sleep with half your brain at a time while swimming, and you are not interested in stockpiling food for later? I have a feeling that what dolphins lack in material culture, they make up for in social life, poetry, philosophy, and music. They're probably looking at us with pity: "Their pod dynamics wouldn't be such a mess if only they didn't waste so much time and effort building stuff..." (Okay, okay, I know a lot of you people love building stuff...) If anyone's interested, I really enjoyed Voices in the Ocean by Susan Casey as a look into how advanced dolphins may actually be. She explores scientific facts and even interviews "kooky" new-age people who swim with dolphins daily to get their POV. I was convinced that at least there are dimensions to dolphins' lives that traditional marine biologists are totally unprepared to touch.
eru 10y ago
Humans were already pretty handy with wood, leather and stones. No underwater species has made it that far. (No idea whether there's any wood equivalent underwater.)
- douche 10y ago
  > Humans were already pretty handy Having opposable thumbs is a pretty big deal. One Arthur Clarke short story that has always weirdly stuck with me is "Second Dawn" - which revolves around super-intelligent telepathic horse-like aliens, who have sadly limited technology because they only have hooves.
dom0 10y ago
Eh, smelting metal isn't easy. Even primitive smelting and forging is complex and needs a lot of experience to get right.

maxerickson 10y ago

Humans were doing pretty good already in the late stone age.

stcredzero 10y ago
An ocean environment would wreak havoc or greatly inconvenience on all of the materials of stone age technology.

stcredzero 10y ago

Seawater also plays hell with ropes and hide. You can't construct with stone, because it sinks to the bottom, and the silty bottom is a rotten foundation. You can't build with wood because it floats away, it will soften and weather quickly, and things will eat it quickly. You can't wear tools, as that ruins your streamlining, and fast swimmers will generate high drag forces on anything they wear. The ocean isn't a good place for tool building!

landryraccoon 10y ago
Perhaps in a future age, spacefaring civilizations will say the same thing about primitive life forms living at the bottom of gravity wells. How can you get anywhere with so much gravity holding you down?
- stcredzero 10y ago
  You can still build edged tools, weapons, clocks, and computers at the bottom of a gravity well. Being aquatic is completely different -- the environment often keeps you from evolving manipulators for building tools. Even if you evolve the manipulators, the environment automatically degrades the value of the tools.
xherberta 10y ago
Interesting thought! On the other hand, what is the point of building stuff if you don't need protection from rain and snow, vast swaths of ocean are just the right temperature for you, you can sleep with half your brain at a time while swimming, and you are not interested in stockpiling food for later? I have a feeling that what dolphins lack in material culture, they make up for in social life, poetry, philosophy, and music. They're probably looking at us with pity: "Their pod dynamics wouldn't be such a mess if only they didn't waste so much time and effort building stuff..." (Okay, okay, I know a lot of you people love building stuff...) If anyone's interested, I really enjoyed Voices in the Ocean by Susan Casey as a look into how advanced dolphins may actually be. She explores scientific facts and even interviews "kooky" new-age people who swim with dolphins daily to get their POV. I was convinced that at least there are dimensions to dolphins' lives that traditional marine biologists are totally unprepared to touch.

eru 10y ago

Humans were already pretty handy with wood, leather and stones. No underwater species has made it that far. (No idea whether there's any wood equivalent underwater.)

douche 10y ago
> Humans were already pretty handy Having opposable thumbs is a pretty big deal. One Arthur Clarke short story that has always weirdly stuck with me is "Second Dawn" - which revolves around super-intelligent telepathic horse-like aliens, who have sadly limited technology because they only have hooves.

dom0 10y ago

Eh, smelting metal isn't easy. Even primitive smelting and forging is complex and needs a lot of experience to get right.