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Did you (and all the critics going this way that I guess will become the mainstream) even see the '95 movie recently? The highly praised philosophical content

by aluhut 10y ago

Did you (and all the critics going this way that I guess will become the mainstream) even see the '95 movie recently? The highly praised philosophical content is ridiculously short. Barely a few sentences. There is not much talk at all in the movie. Google up the script. It's short. Really short. Most of the movie is action and slow shots where nothing happens and this is the best part of it. Actually when I saw the anime for the first time on VHS, there were those hardcore manga fans complaining in the same way about it. Now today I see the whole /r/scifi going up in fire on how shallow that was. Just to praise the next super hero reboot a few weeks later. I've been in the cinema to watch GitS and I rarely go there. I expected crap. What I got was a beautiful designed cyperpunk action movie that delivered more of a story to one of my favorite characters then the original movie. It couldn't end up being better with all those messed up reboots currently so popular out there. You say the dialogue was bad? So I guess you speak Japanese because all translated versions of the anime I've seen were...let's say: basic stuff blown up. Hope none of your friends who would listen to you were GitS fans because this is a must see for those.

heartsucker 10y ago
> A theatre in New York was showing the 1995 film, so I watched it for first time on big screen on Wednesday, then saw the live action on Friday > Did you ... even see the '95 movie recently? Dude...
- aluhut 10y ago
  It was more of a rhetorical question ;)
fsociety 10y ago
You totally missed the point of the '95 movie if you think it was all in the dialogue. 90% of the content was told through visual storytelling and the soundtrack. The new movie totally missed the point too. If they wanted to make a full up action movie they could've done that.. but instead it was a bad attempt at reimagining the original for a wider audience - which I think is contradictory because the original movie HAS a wide audience while still retaining depth. Not to mention the editing was horrible.. it felt like Batman Vs Superman all over again.
- aluhut 10y ago
  I don't think it was all in the dialogue. Not at all. That's why I was pointing to the script to show how irrelevant it actually was. While it remains the most criticized part of the movie. Besides Motoko. A character that throughout the history from manga to those several other movies and TV-Shows made several changes being somebody else every time. Just compare Motoko from the Manga to the one in the Anime. Or the one from S.A.C. They did not want to make a full up action movie. They made another GitS visual interpretation and since every of those is strongly focused on action, this one was too. This interpretation of her was the first one that really showed a decent human part of her. Something that was actually missing for most other interpretations or was (seen from a western perspective) pretty ridiculous. I haven't seen Batman vs. Superman. What was it exactly that you despised so much about it?
  - fsociety 10y ago
    It was a movie which should've been good, in my opinion, but instead bombed because of a lack of pacing and therefore world creation. I think that's something the '95 movie did really well, the long drawn out shots of the cityscape with random people walking. It paces the movie really well, and helps create the illusion that the movie is in a real world. I think it's even more of a shame, because they really nailed the special effects in the 2017 movie. I thought the SFX were awe-inspiring. The movie had way to much packed into it, and would've benefited from slowing down every now and then to introduce better pacing.
    - aluhut 10y ago
      Yes it's true, those slow moments were too short but it had more story. I bet if it had those moments longer and less of the story, people would complain about that. There is no way to win here if people want to hate it, they'll find ways.
ernst_klim 10y ago
>The highly praised philosophical content is ridiculously short. >Did you (and all the critics going this way that I guess will become the mainstream) even see the '95 movie recently? The most sad thing is that the authors of the movie didn't. I mean the movie is just a stupid fan service, just an ill-conceived mishmash of images taken from original movie. Original movie had a well-built composition of images. Each image was appropriate, each scene was a logical and necessary part of the whole picture. And those scenes and images were brought to the new movie in such a silly and thoughtless manner (typical for Hollywood in general), that they lost all meaning. For example the last image, the image of the Adam and Eve under the tree of knowledge was dictated by the plot. In original movie the antagonist was the computer program recognized itself alive that risen against its creators. The Christian images of the fall, the archetypal image of the tree, all that religious parallels emphasized the central motive of the film, the motive of recognition of being alive and having a free will. And in the new movie the plot is different, there is no Puppet Master and no attempt to reproduction, so the image thoughtlessly taken from 1995's is void. And so the full movie is void, each image is void and so the composition itself. Tbh there is no composition at all.
- aluhut 10y ago
  > I mean the movie is just a stupid fan service, just an ill-conceived mishmash of images taken from original movie. Without that "mishmash" and scenes from the different animes, it wouldn't be GitS and people would complain about that. Hell, I wasn't ready to leave the room until I've heard THAT song. It came at the end and I nearly lost a tear. Same for the moment we saw the plane between the buildings of this superb designed city (did you look close? There is stuff happening behind the windows!). I'm sorry for you not being able to enjoy this. I'm not sure how I could believe you to like it in the '95 anime. > For example the last image....And in the new movie the plot is different, there is no Puppet Master Really now? You do realize that there are more then the '95 movie and the manga do you? In most of them there is also no Puppet Master and the main character has a different character. The main plot is different and they deliver different messages. They all are an interpretation of the manga. This one was too. Or did I miss the part where someone told us is was supposed to be the exact real life copy of the '95 anime interpretation? This is all or the best you could come up with to support your harsh and rough criticism? A sign of missing knowledge? Man, your comment is void.
pabb 10y ago
Thanks for this, it echoes my sentiments exactly. I first saw the 1995 film a couple years ago and loved it, but the existential pieces really need some contemplation, or at least further reading, to sink in. And it's precisely because the dialogue is sparse and even vague at times. Anyone complaining that the new one is notably watered down is speaking through their Otaku filter, or otherwise not recalling just how much the original movie left up to interpretation. Regardless, I loved both the original and the new movie. I have no idea why people are giving it such flak, other than being bum hurt that obviously a Hollywood adaptation is going to make the story more accessible. They did so, while still being mostly faithful to the mood and atmosphere of the original.

by aluhut 10y ago

heartsucker 10y ago

> A theatre in New York was showing the 1995 film, so I watched it for first time on big screen on Wednesday, then saw the live action on Friday > Did you ... even see the '95 movie recently? Dude...

aluhut 10y ago
It was more of a rhetorical question ;)

fsociety 10y ago

You totally missed the point of the '95 movie if you think it was all in the dialogue. 90% of the content was told through visual storytelling and the soundtrack. The new movie totally missed the point too. If they wanted to make a full up action movie they could've done that.. but instead it was a bad attempt at reimagining the original for a wider audience - which I think is contradictory because the original movie HAS a wide audience while still retaining depth. Not to mention the editing was horrible.. it felt like Batman Vs Superman all over again.

aluhut 10y ago
I don't think it was all in the dialogue. Not at all. That's why I was pointing to the script to show how irrelevant it actually was. While it remains the most criticized part of the movie. Besides Motoko. A character that throughout the history from manga to those several other movies and TV-Shows made several changes being somebody else every time. Just compare Motoko from the Manga to the one in the Anime. Or the one from S.A.C. They did not want to make a full up action movie. They made another GitS visual interpretation and since every of those is strongly focused on action, this one was too. This interpretation of her was the first one that really showed a decent human part of her. Something that was actually missing for most other interpretations or was (seen from a western perspective) pretty ridiculous. I haven't seen Batman vs. Superman. What was it exactly that you despised so much about it?
- fsociety 10y ago
  It was a movie which should've been good, in my opinion, but instead bombed because of a lack of pacing and therefore world creation. I think that's something the '95 movie did really well, the long drawn out shots of the cityscape with random people walking. It paces the movie really well, and helps create the illusion that the movie is in a real world. I think it's even more of a shame, because they really nailed the special effects in the 2017 movie. I thought the SFX were awe-inspiring. The movie had way to much packed into it, and would've benefited from slowing down every now and then to introduce better pacing.
  - aluhut 10y ago
    Yes it's true, those slow moments were too short but it had more story. I bet if it had those moments longer and less of the story, people would complain about that. There is no way to win here if people want to hate it, they'll find ways.

ernst_klim 10y ago

>The highly praised philosophical content is ridiculously short. >Did you (and all the critics going this way that I guess will become the mainstream) even see the '95 movie recently? The most sad thing is that the authors of the movie didn't. I mean the movie is just a stupid fan service, just an ill-conceived mishmash of images taken from original movie. Original movie had a well-built composition of images. Each image was appropriate, each scene was a logical and necessary part of the whole picture. And those scenes and images were brought to the new movie in such a silly and thoughtless manner (typical for Hollywood in general), that they lost all meaning. For example the last image, the image of the Adam and Eve under the tree of knowledge was dictated by the plot. In original movie the antagonist was the computer program recognized itself alive that risen against its creators. The Christian images of the fall, the archetypal image of the tree, all that religious parallels emphasized the central motive of the film, the motive of recognition of being alive and having a free will. And in the new movie the plot is different, there is no Puppet Master and no attempt to reproduction, so the image thoughtlessly taken from 1995's is void. And so the full movie is void, each image is void and so the composition itself. Tbh there is no composition at all.

aluhut 10y ago
> I mean the movie is just a stupid fan service, just an ill-conceived mishmash of images taken from original movie. Without that "mishmash" and scenes from the different animes, it wouldn't be GitS and people would complain about that. Hell, I wasn't ready to leave the room until I've heard THAT song. It came at the end and I nearly lost a tear. Same for the moment we saw the plane between the buildings of this superb designed city (did you look close? There is stuff happening behind the windows!). I'm sorry for you not being able to enjoy this. I'm not sure how I could believe you to like it in the '95 anime. > For example the last image....And in the new movie the plot is different, there is no Puppet Master Really now? You do realize that there are more then the '95 movie and the manga do you? In most of them there is also no Puppet Master and the main character has a different character. The main plot is different and they deliver different messages. They all are an interpretation of the manga. This one was too. Or did I miss the part where someone told us is was supposed to be the exact real life copy of the '95 anime interpretation? This is all or the best you could come up with to support your harsh and rough criticism? A sign of missing knowledge? Man, your comment is void.

pabb 10y ago

Thanks for this, it echoes my sentiments exactly. I first saw the 1995 film a couple years ago and loved it, but the existential pieces really need some contemplation, or at least further reading, to sink in. And it's precisely because the dialogue is sparse and even vague at times. Anyone complaining that the new one is notably watered down is speaking through their Otaku filter, or otherwise not recalling just how much the original movie left up to interpretation. Regardless, I loved both the original and the new movie. I have no idea why people are giving it such flak, other than being bum hurt that obviously a Hollywood adaptation is going to make the story more accessible. They did so, while still being mostly faithful to the mood and atmosphere of the original.