6 ms·

I graduated high school in 2008 and dropped out of college a few years later. I can honestly say not one person (other than my parents) ever recommended conside

I graduated high school in 2008 and dropped out of college a few years later. I can honestly say not one person (other than my parents) ever recommended considering cost until after my Freshman year of college. The message that was pounded in again and again and again was "The best college at all costs." I'm pretty sure that's no longer the case - at least I hope so.

antisthenes 10y ago
The classic case of "You can totally substitute being part of the capitalist class with education signaling!" Turns out you can not, at least not in America.
agalarza 10y ago
Sorry if this is too personal, but did you think your parents were blowing hot air or something? This thread has been eye-opening from the perspective of all these comments who (apparently) had negligible guidance from a group of people (parents) who absolutely need to talk about debt to their kids. Maybe a silver lining in this topic is a generation of future parents who will have better conversations with their kids around going into debt for their college education.
- austenallred 10y ago
  No, I think I swung too far in that direction if anything. I decided not to go to Stanford because it would be too expensive (one semester's tuition at Stanford is about one year of median income where I'm from, and that scared me to death). Only years later did I learn it would have been free because of how much (or little) income my parents had. It still upsets me to think about it. I now have an almost unhealthy fear of debt, to the extent that I don't even want to own a home until I can pay cash for it. (Though, to be fair, living in Silicon Valley right now with housing prices swinging $500k for what was a $500k house in a few years that fear may be somewhat healthy).
- rayiner 10y ago
  My parents never warned me about education debt. I think it's a common trait among baby boomer parents - they're convinced it'll all work out and that education is worth any cost. Heck, my parents (who are both baby boomers and asian, so double whammy) are disappointed that my brother will not leave his Wall Street job to go to graduate school. They can't even articulate a reason how that would help his career--they're just disappointed that they both have masters degrees and he's just got a bachelors degree. The culture surrounding education in this country is not rational. It's a soup of optimism, hope, preconception, ignorance, and classism, along with the avarice of those in the educational establishment that prey on the foregoing.
  - will_brown 10y ago
    I would add that baby boomers either: a) had parents able to pay for their entire education; b) were able to work their way thru school; or c) used a GI bill. In other words the market effects of guaranteed student loans that permited colleges/universities to charge any tuition fees they want and still have an endless supply of student with the funds to pay. Baby boomers can't imagine graduating with the equivalent of a mortgage payment and the reality of a non existent job market that might put them in a financial position to payoff their student loans much less pursue the American dream (house, car, kids). Meanwhile culturally we have a media that pushes the narrative of 4% unemployment; that young people don't want to own a car; young people don't want to own a house; and young people don't want to get married and have families. The whole thing highlights US culture from the individual to the collective willing to lie/embellish finances, which prohibits anyone from having honest conversations about guaranteed loans; actually costs of school; lack of jobs; non existent wage increases since the 80's...it's the culture of lying/masking finances and a debt fueled economy that lead to housing collapse and eventually will lead to a collapse in the student loan market.
- epalmer 10y ago
  My youngest is going to Olin college of engineering next fall and we talk about debt a lot. We had a conversation last night about debt. We are blessed that Olin is a needs based school that provides grants (debt free) for families that can't fully afford college. They want their students to have a little debt (skin in the game) but we are talking a little not a lot. We talk about personal finance, net worth, investing, saving for retirement and many related topics. I am an engineer by training and a computer scientist by career. My wife has done a lot of accounting most of her life. Also right now the career prospects in engineering are good. I work at a university so I see the downside often of student debt and bad major choices.
  - roymurdock 10y ago
    Highly recommend that your son/daughter cross register for biz classes (negotiations, basic accounting) at Babson and a liberal arts class or 2 at Wellesley in junior/senior year. The best class I took at Babson was a combination biz/engineering course at Olin called Affordable Design and Entrepreneurship. The lead instructor, Ben Linder, is amazing. Wrote more about the project/experience here if you're interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13312978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13312978 Olin is a great school (can't beat the price), and every student I've worked with and learned from at Olin has been great. So congrats, you should be very proud of your kid! Definitely making a smart choice.
    - epalmer 10y ago
      @roymurdock Thanks so much. She is planning on taking a class or two Babson and Wellesley. We are pretty excited about Olin. She is doing a gap year this year as an Americorp Vista FIRST Robotics employee. She was mature already but the gap year has really helped her thinking develop in critical ways. So gap years are recommended when it can be worked out. Edit: added a "Pretty cool" Pretty cool project. Thanks for sharing.
      - erroneousfunk 10y ago
        I graduated from Olin, never took a class at Babson, but would also highly recommend classes at Wellesley. The major downside to Olin is that it's very small and the humanities offerings are very scarce and not comprehensive at all. Olin has a four class humanities requirement for graduation and you're required to have a "theme" to the classes so that you have a sort of "humanities concentration." Some students don't really think about this until senior year, at which point they panic, take a couple more classes, and submit some sort of hand-wavey statement that tries to tie together all the extremely different classes they took. I took Russian 101, 102, 201, and 202 over the course of 2 years at Wellesley and it was fantastic. I would highly recommend that she think about, not just her engineering major, but what topic she wants to pursue in the arts or humanities. If you make a decision in your freshman/sophomore year and pursue a specific set of classes it's an amazing opportunity to pick up a new skill/hobby, or expand on an existing one.
- lovich 10y ago
  Did no one else have boomer parents who refused to talk about finances, even when asked point blank? Mine said it wasn't something you discussed with your children, and that was a common viewpoint where I grew up.
- deegles 10y ago
  Won't a lot of them be unable to afford kids?
soverance 10y ago
Don't feel bad, this exact same situation happened to me. I wanted to make a change in my life, and build a better future for myself. Everyone I spoke to said that going to college would be a great idea - there was no way the investment would not be worth it. My parents, my coworkers, my friends, and of course the advisors at my school - they all said it would be worth it. Not a single contradiction throughout countless conversations. So I went to college, at my own expense. I had no money, so I pulled federal loans like so many others. $25k and 1.5 years later, I realize that college isn't teaching me anything I could not have learned for free on YouTube/Google. Angry at the scores of people who deceived me into believing college was a good investment, and angrier at the institution for acting like predators upon my naive desire to succeed, I dropped out. When I spoke with the Dean of my school about how I was not feeling challenged after paying exorbitant fees, she said these exact words: "Well, maybe college just isn't for you." Needless to say, I now know more about my chosen career field than most average college grads, due to experience. However, years later I'm still $25k in the hole - the only significant debt I've ever incurred in my entire life. For me, college was a literal waste of $25,000+ and nearly two years of my life. At this point in my life, I'm telling everyone who asks that college is a complete waste of time, money, and energy.
- kamaal 10y ago
  >>I realize that college isn't teaching me anything I could not have learned for free on YouTube/Google. And yet not many people train themselves watching just these videos. You generally need a highly disciplined lifestyle to get your education through these means. >>Angry at the scores of people who deceived me into believing college was a good investment, and angrier at the institution for acting like predators upon my naive desire to succeed, I dropped out. They were most likely talking about your job prospects. Many things in college have gone from 'learning' to 'getting a degree for a job' a long time ago.
  - randomdata 10y ago
    > And yet not many people train themselves watching just these videos. Although not that many go out of their way to train – period. You are already an exceptional case if you are thinking about furthering your education, be it through postsecondary schooling or Youtube videos. > You generally need a highly disciplined lifestyle to get your education through these means. More disciplined than than those who do not attain an advanced education at all, but not more than other avenues of gaining the same education. > Many things in college have gone from 'learning' to 'getting a degree for a job' a long time ago. The perception has, at least. The outcome hasn't. Job quality has measurably declined with increasing college attainment rates, and incomes have remained stagnant.

antisthenes 10y ago

The classic case of "You can totally substitute being part of the capitalist class with education signaling!" Turns out you can not, at least not in America.

agalarza 10y ago

Sorry if this is too personal, but did you think your parents were blowing hot air or something? This thread has been eye-opening from the perspective of all these comments who (apparently) had negligible guidance from a group of people (parents) who absolutely need to talk about debt to their kids. Maybe a silver lining in this topic is a generation of future parents who will have better conversations with their kids around going into debt for their college education.

austenallred 10y ago
No, I think I swung too far in that direction if anything. I decided not to go to Stanford because it would be too expensive (one semester's tuition at Stanford is about one year of median income where I'm from, and that scared me to death). Only years later did I learn it would have been free because of how much (or little) income my parents had. It still upsets me to think about it. I now have an almost unhealthy fear of debt, to the extent that I don't even want to own a home until I can pay cash for it. (Though, to be fair, living in Silicon Valley right now with housing prices swinging $500k for what was a $500k house in a few years that fear may be somewhat healthy).
rayiner 10y ago
My parents never warned me about education debt. I think it's a common trait among baby boomer parents - they're convinced it'll all work out and that education is worth any cost. Heck, my parents (who are both baby boomers and asian, so double whammy) are disappointed that my brother will not leave his Wall Street job to go to graduate school. They can't even articulate a reason how that would help his career--they're just disappointed that they both have masters degrees and he's just got a bachelors degree. The culture surrounding education in this country is not rational. It's a soup of optimism, hope, preconception, ignorance, and classism, along with the avarice of those in the educational establishment that prey on the foregoing.
- will_brown 10y ago
  I would add that baby boomers either: a) had parents able to pay for their entire education; b) were able to work their way thru school; or c) used a GI bill. In other words the market effects of guaranteed student loans that permited colleges/universities to charge any tuition fees they want and still have an endless supply of student with the funds to pay. Baby boomers can't imagine graduating with the equivalent of a mortgage payment and the reality of a non existent job market that might put them in a financial position to payoff their student loans much less pursue the American dream (house, car, kids). Meanwhile culturally we have a media that pushes the narrative of 4% unemployment; that young people don't want to own a car; young people don't want to own a house; and young people don't want to get married and have families. The whole thing highlights US culture from the individual to the collective willing to lie/embellish finances, which prohibits anyone from having honest conversations about guaranteed loans; actually costs of school; lack of jobs; non existent wage increases since the 80's...it's the culture of lying/masking finances and a debt fueled economy that lead to housing collapse and eventually will lead to a collapse in the student loan market.
epalmer 10y ago
My youngest is going to Olin college of engineering next fall and we talk about debt a lot. We had a conversation last night about debt. We are blessed that Olin is a needs based school that provides grants (debt free) for families that can't fully afford college. They want their students to have a little debt (skin in the game) but we are talking a little not a lot. We talk about personal finance, net worth, investing, saving for retirement and many related topics. I am an engineer by training and a computer scientist by career. My wife has done a lot of accounting most of her life. Also right now the career prospects in engineering are good. I work at a university so I see the downside often of student debt and bad major choices.
- roymurdock 10y ago
  Highly recommend that your son/daughter cross register for biz classes (negotiations, basic accounting) at Babson and a liberal arts class or 2 at Wellesley in junior/senior year. The best class I took at Babson was a combination biz/engineering course at Olin called Affordable Design and Entrepreneurship. The lead instructor, Ben Linder, is amazing. Wrote more about the project/experience here if you're interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13312978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13312978 Olin is a great school (can't beat the price), and every student I've worked with and learned from at Olin has been great. So congrats, you should be very proud of your kid! Definitely making a smart choice.
  - epalmer 10y ago
    @roymurdock Thanks so much. She is planning on taking a class or two Babson and Wellesley. We are pretty excited about Olin. She is doing a gap year this year as an Americorp Vista FIRST Robotics employee. She was mature already but the gap year has really helped her thinking develop in critical ways. So gap years are recommended when it can be worked out. Edit: added a "Pretty cool" Pretty cool project. Thanks for sharing.
    - erroneousfunk 10y ago
      I graduated from Olin, never took a class at Babson, but would also highly recommend classes at Wellesley. The major downside to Olin is that it's very small and the humanities offerings are very scarce and not comprehensive at all. Olin has a four class humanities requirement for graduation and you're required to have a "theme" to the classes so that you have a sort of "humanities concentration." Some students don't really think about this until senior year, at which point they panic, take a couple more classes, and submit some sort of hand-wavey statement that tries to tie together all the extremely different classes they took. I took Russian 101, 102, 201, and 202 over the course of 2 years at Wellesley and it was fantastic. I would highly recommend that she think about, not just her engineering major, but what topic she wants to pursue in the arts or humanities. If you make a decision in your freshman/sophomore year and pursue a specific set of classes it's an amazing opportunity to pick up a new skill/hobby, or expand on an existing one.
lovich 10y ago
Did no one else have boomer parents who refused to talk about finances, even when asked point blank? Mine said it wasn't something you discussed with your children, and that was a common viewpoint where I grew up.
deegles 10y ago
Won't a lot of them be unable to afford kids?

soverance 10y ago

Don't feel bad, this exact same situation happened to me. I wanted to make a change in my life, and build a better future for myself. Everyone I spoke to said that going to college would be a great idea - there was no way the investment would not be worth it. My parents, my coworkers, my friends, and of course the advisors at my school - they all said it would be worth it. Not a single contradiction throughout countless conversations. So I went to college, at my own expense. I had no money, so I pulled federal loans like so many others. $25k and 1.5 years later, I realize that college isn't teaching me anything I could not have learned for free on YouTube/Google. Angry at the scores of people who deceived me into believing college was a good investment, and angrier at the institution for acting like predators upon my naive desire to succeed, I dropped out. When I spoke with the Dean of my school about how I was not feeling challenged after paying exorbitant fees, she said these exact words: "Well, maybe college just isn't for you." Needless to say, I now know more about my chosen career field than most average college grads, due to experience. However, years later I'm still $25k in the hole - the only significant debt I've ever incurred in my entire life. For me, college was a literal waste of $25,000+ and nearly two years of my life. At this point in my life, I'm telling everyone who asks that college is a complete waste of time, money, and energy.

kamaal 10y ago
>>I realize that college isn't teaching me anything I could not have learned for free on YouTube/Google. And yet not many people train themselves watching just these videos. You generally need a highly disciplined lifestyle to get your education through these means. >>Angry at the scores of people who deceived me into believing college was a good investment, and angrier at the institution for acting like predators upon my naive desire to succeed, I dropped out. They were most likely talking about your job prospects. Many things in college have gone from 'learning' to 'getting a degree for a job' a long time ago.
- randomdata 10y ago
  > And yet not many people train themselves watching just these videos. Although not that many go out of their way to train – period. You are already an exceptional case if you are thinking about furthering your education, be it through postsecondary schooling or Youtube videos. > You generally need a highly disciplined lifestyle to get your education through these means. More disciplined than than those who do not attain an advanced education at all, but not more than other avenues of gaining the same education. > Many things in college have gone from 'learning' to 'getting a degree for a job' a long time ago. The perception has, at least. The outcome hasn't. Job quality has measurably declined with increasing college attainment rates, and incomes have remained stagnant.