7 ms·

What baffles me is that it is 2017 and Windows comes with less than it did decades ago. At least prior to Win2000 there was QBasic and edit.com, but now startin

What baffles me is that it is 2017 and Windows comes with less than it did decades ago. At least prior to Win2000 there was QBasic and edit.com, but now starting to work on a Windows machine means downloading and installing basic tools. Need to SSH/SFTP? Download. Need to edit code? Download. Python? Download. Perl? Download. A reasonable terminal? Download. Yes, I might have to go to the Mac App Store and get command line tools for C, C++, Objective-C, etc. It is unfortunate that XQuartz is no longer installed by default, granted. (PowerShell is very nice to work with though, I give MS full credit for that.) I could live with having to download python, perl, etc., but someone please explain why having an absolutely fundamental ability to edit text and securely connect to work and transfer data to/from remote machines is something that any OS should be shipping without?

yokohummer7 10y ago
Windows does have a C# compiler by default. It is located in the `Windows\Microsoft.NET` folder. Not very discoverable, though. And starting with Windows 10 a metro app called 'Code Writer' seems to be installed by default for coding. (At least it's there in my installation.) I didn't try it though.
- bobochan 10y ago
  I'm glad. MS has made a lot of good programming tools. I really like Visual Studio and was a huge fan of QuickBasic 4.5 back in the day. Turbo Pascal was the killer app that first enticed me to the PC world. It still befuddles me why some of this basic functionality cannot be a standard part of Windows. Not every Mac user uses emacs, or even knows how to open the Terminal app, but the fact that basic tools are supported means that there is just a baseline level of infrastructure to work with.
  - eppsilon 10y ago
    I have a feeling they cut a lot of these things in trying to reduce the install footprint when netbooks/tablets were all the rage.
maccard 10y ago
> but someone please explain why having an absolutely fundamental ability to edit text and securely connect to work and transfer data to/from remote machines is something that any OS should be shipping without? The ability to edit text _does_ ship on windows - notepad. (not that I'd recommend it but it does exist). Also, OSX doesn't ship with anything better. FTP isn't a fundamental requirement for everyone, I don't have an FTP client installed on my machine, and don't have any intention of installing one.
- bobochan 10y ago
  Notepad??? OS X has shipped with both emacs and vim since Day 1. I'm sorry, but you seem quite unfamiliar with Macs. You are correct, I would never suggest anyone have an FTP client; I have that service turned off on every machine I administer. SSH / SFTP are fundamental tools however.
  - Godel_unicode 10y ago
    > SSH / SFTP are fundamental tools They are provided out of the box (and newer versions than OSX ships with) by WSL. As is vim, emacs, apt, etc.
    - bobochan 10y ago
      Excellent point. WSL is certainly a step in the right direction.
    - ovao 10y ago
      They are provided in WSL, but the Windows Subsystem for Linux is a separate install atop Windows, and the installation process is currently very complex and lengthy.
      - Godel_unicode 10y ago
        Windows key, type "developer mode", hit enter, click "developer mode" (or 3x tabs, space, enter). PowerShell, send "lxrun /install /y" Done. Pro-tip. Pin PowerShell to your taskbar and drag all the way left. Now you can open it with win+1. Edit: now with no mouse required!
stinos 10y ago
starting to work on a Windows machine means downloading and installing basic tools While that is true, it's a bit of a moot point imo. I have yet to see an OS which had everything I needed for any actual work installed out of the box. As such, the way to deal with this is have a script download/install everything for you (and eventually copy or link all configuration files). Using Powershell getting any of the examples you mention is basically a one-liner just like for other package management tools, something like `openssh, miniconda, strawberryperl, conemu | Install-Package`. Or you can go more of a DSC way with Powershell Dsc.

yokohummer7 10y ago

Windows does have a C# compiler by default. It is located in the `Windows\Microsoft.NET` folder. Not very discoverable, though. And starting with Windows 10 a metro app called 'Code Writer' seems to be installed by default for coding. (At least it's there in my installation.) I didn't try it though.

bobochan 10y ago
I'm glad. MS has made a lot of good programming tools. I really like Visual Studio and was a huge fan of QuickBasic 4.5 back in the day. Turbo Pascal was the killer app that first enticed me to the PC world. It still befuddles me why some of this basic functionality cannot be a standard part of Windows. Not every Mac user uses emacs, or even knows how to open the Terminal app, but the fact that basic tools are supported means that there is just a baseline level of infrastructure to work with.
- eppsilon 10y ago
  I have a feeling they cut a lot of these things in trying to reduce the install footprint when netbooks/tablets were all the rage.

maccard 10y ago

> but someone please explain why having an absolutely fundamental ability to edit text and securely connect to work and transfer data to/from remote machines is something that any OS should be shipping without? The ability to edit text _does_ ship on windows - notepad. (not that I'd recommend it but it does exist). Also, OSX doesn't ship with anything better. FTP isn't a fundamental requirement for everyone, I don't have an FTP client installed on my machine, and don't have any intention of installing one.

bobochan 10y ago
Notepad??? OS X has shipped with both emacs and vim since Day 1. I'm sorry, but you seem quite unfamiliar with Macs. You are correct, I would never suggest anyone have an FTP client; I have that service turned off on every machine I administer. SSH / SFTP are fundamental tools however.
- Godel_unicode 10y ago
  > SSH / SFTP are fundamental tools They are provided out of the box (and newer versions than OSX ships with) by WSL. As is vim, emacs, apt, etc.
  - bobochan 10y ago
    Excellent point. WSL is certainly a step in the right direction.
  - ovao 10y ago
    They are provided in WSL, but the Windows Subsystem for Linux is a separate install atop Windows, and the installation process is currently very complex and lengthy.
    - Godel_unicode 10y ago
      Windows key, type "developer mode", hit enter, click "developer mode" (or 3x tabs, space, enter). PowerShell, send "lxrun /install /y" Done. Pro-tip. Pin PowerShell to your taskbar and drag all the way left. Now you can open it with win+1. Edit: now with no mouse required!

stinos 10y ago

starting to work on a Windows machine means downloading and installing basic tools While that is true, it's a bit of a moot point imo. I have yet to see an OS which had everything I needed for any actual work installed out of the box. As such, the way to deal with this is have a script download/install everything for you (and eventually copy or link all configuration files). Using Powershell getting any of the examples you mention is basically a one-liner just like for other package management tools, something like `openssh, miniconda, strawberryperl, conemu | Install-Package`. Or you can go more of a DSC way with Powershell Dsc.