5 ms·

Let me just take one point: Only unimportant scraps of code can be free, but the real code must remain secret, restricted, proprietary. Clearly Microsoft miss

Let me just take one point: Only unimportant scraps of code can be free, but the real code must remain secret, restricted, proprietary. Clearly Microsoft missed this as they are open sourcing most (all?) of .Net?

zer0tonin 10y ago
Yeah, the real thing is "The only code that must remain secret is one that concerns the business logic". Ie. Facebook has open sourced React, Cassandra, HHVM... but they will never open source the code that powers the newsfeed or the friend list.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- jordigh 10y ago
  Whether you call it "business logic" or "the real code", the fact remains that the real, sneaky, controlling code; the one that manipulates users emotions[1], must remain secret and restricted. I don't think companies that do this have a true commitment to respecting their users, and their rhetoric about the evils of copyleft always make me think, "what are you trying to hide or control?" --- [1] http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/facebook-manipulates-emotions-business-usual-social-media-giant-n144811 http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/facebook-manipulates-em...
schaefer 10y ago
Oh really? I don't care for the way the my Microsoft Windows computer changes focus between windows. I'm sure a quick change to DWM.exe (Desktop Window Manager) would make me much happier as a user. I'll even do the work myself. Can you tell me where I can go grab the latest source code for DWM, so I can make those changes? I don't think it's possible for a home user. And I think it's important. (If I'm wrong, I'd love to be corrected.)
- artimaeis 10y ago
  DWM.exe is not a part of .NET, it's part of Windows. The .NET team has been making strives towards open source, but the Windows team has not.
- ksk 10y ago
  Can you point to all the things you have modified in programs where you do have source access? I don't find the argument that users will go around making changes and testing them on OS level code to be a credible reason for open-sourcing anything. If you want to say, that having the code helps in other ways for development, or debugging then sure..
  - schaefer 10y ago
    I will not provide an exhaustive list, but I will give a single example. I also wish I had the source code to the controller software to a large motorized rock climbing wall that was produced back in 2002. The "Assent fun rock". Alas, I don't. So... I've reverse engineered the protocol between the device and the native computer controller and implemented my own controller stack from the ground up on linux. Why? because I wanted to add an algorithm that lets the speed of the device respond to the reading on my heart rate monitor. Here's a photo of me on the thing, courtesy of my friend. https://www.instagram.com/p/48WVcbkT6x/ https://www.instagram.com/p/48WVcbkT6x/
    - reitanqild 10y ago
      >> Can you point to all the things you have modified in programs where you do have source access? Good question. Just ask it respectfully because.. > Alas, I don't. So... I've reverse engineered the protocol between the device and the native computer controller and implemented my own controller stack from the ground up on linux. ... it gets better everytime it actually is a hacker on the other end. Have my upvote!
      - ksk 10y ago
        Why have you assumed it was not respectful?

zer0tonin 10y ago

Yeah, the real thing is "The only code that must remain secret is one that concerns the business logic". Ie. Facebook has open sourced React, Cassandra, HHVM... but they will never open source the code that powers the newsfeed or the friend list.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jordigh 10y ago
Whether you call it "business logic" or "the real code", the fact remains that the real, sneaky, controlling code; the one that manipulates users emotions[1], must remain secret and restricted. I don't think companies that do this have a true commitment to respecting their users, and their rhetoric about the evils of copyleft always make me think, "what are you trying to hide or control?" --- [1] http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/facebook-manipulates-emotions-business-usual-social-media-giant-n144811 http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/facebook-manipulates-em...

schaefer 10y ago

Oh really? I don't care for the way the my Microsoft Windows computer changes focus between windows. I'm sure a quick change to DWM.exe (Desktop Window Manager) would make me much happier as a user. I'll even do the work myself. Can you tell me where I can go grab the latest source code for DWM, so I can make those changes? I don't think it's possible for a home user. And I think it's important. (If I'm wrong, I'd love to be corrected.)

artimaeis 10y ago
DWM.exe is not a part of .NET, it's part of Windows. The .NET team has been making strives towards open source, but the Windows team has not.
ksk 10y ago
Can you point to all the things you have modified in programs where you do have source access? I don't find the argument that users will go around making changes and testing them on OS level code to be a credible reason for open-sourcing anything. If you want to say, that having the code helps in other ways for development, or debugging then sure..
- schaefer 10y ago
  I will not provide an exhaustive list, but I will give a single example. I also wish I had the source code to the controller software to a large motorized rock climbing wall that was produced back in 2002. The "Assent fun rock". Alas, I don't. So... I've reverse engineered the protocol between the device and the native computer controller and implemented my own controller stack from the ground up on linux. Why? because I wanted to add an algorithm that lets the speed of the device respond to the reading on my heart rate monitor. Here's a photo of me on the thing, courtesy of my friend. https://www.instagram.com/p/48WVcbkT6x/ https://www.instagram.com/p/48WVcbkT6x/
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    >> Can you point to all the things you have modified in programs where you do have source access? Good question. Just ask it respectfully because.. > Alas, I don't. So... I've reverse engineered the protocol between the device and the native computer controller and implemented my own controller stack from the ground up on linux. ... it gets better everytime it actually is a hacker on the other end. Have my upvote!
    - ksk 10y ago
      Why have you assumed it was not respectful?