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I'm part of that generation and made that mistake for sure. > The thing that irks me about this the most is how it's the people who were doing exactly what the

by jMyles 10y ago

I'm part of that generation and made that mistake for sure. > The thing that irks me about this the most is how it's the people who were doing exactly what they were told that got hurt the most. The takeaway here is, in part: don't do something just because you're told to. If our generation stops doing what we're told (which seems to be the case), then this will be a small price.

austenallred 10y ago
Agreed, though if the incentives weren't so misaligned it wouldn't doom you to 20-30 years of struggle if/when you didn't think for yourself. For example, if the loans weren't backed by Uncle Sam there would be some threshold at which the loan providers would say "OK people studying this aren't getting jobs." Or if the universities that were promising careers had their feet held to the fire somehow before it had to reach ITT Tech billions of dollars. I've been thinking a lot about a model in which education is extended as credit. If students paid back a percentage of income how would that change colleges? I don't have all of the answers, and bootstrapping that kind of thing is rough, but I'm trying a few experiments along those lines that could be very interesting at scale.
kpwags 10y ago
I generally agree that you should think about what you're doing even if you're told to do so. That said, for someone 18 years old without a lot of life experience, when you're being told to go to college, that you need a college degree to succeed by just about everyone, and being bombarded from all sides with that message...might be a little difficult to really think otherwise. I'm fortunate that I went into a good field and didn't come out with too much debt, but I don't even want to think of what my family would have said if I questioned the need for college my senior year of high school.
bluedino 10y ago
Didn't people try placing the blame on that during the last housing bubble? "You're throwing money away renting, buy a house! The value will only go up!"
wu-ikkyu 10y ago
>The takeaway here is, in part: don't do something just because you're told to. Perhaps children shouldn't go to school at all then, seeing as how the mantra of the classroom is sit down, shut up, and do what you're told or else you are likely to be labeled with a mental disorder and drugged with amphetamines.
maxxxxx 10y ago
How is someone 18 years old supposed to figure out what to do? At that age I had no idea how the workplace works or how to get a career, don't event talk about a career I like. Some people have parents with insight or they just have luck but without guidance what do you do?
- jMyles 10y ago
  I think that 18 year-olds today are quite a lot more sophisticated than I was at 18. But yeah, it's tough; you need to survey multiple sources.
  - maxxxxx 10y ago
    With all the sources telling you different things?
- randomdata 10y ago
  Growing up on the farm, I had more than a decade of workplace experience, marketable skills, and exposure to life lessons like learning how to learn by the age of 18. In fact, I started my current career when I was 17. To just start thinking about those things after the age of 18 is difficult to imagine. What I wonder is why we find it acceptable – desirable even – to shield children under the age of 18 from the reality they will face after that age? How did we reach a point where 18 year olds find themselves in your position? Historically, my experience would have been common. I think it is a travesty so many miss out in modern times. Learning about life has proven to not be a suitable replacement for engaging in life, in my opinion.
  - maxxxxx 10y ago
    I think they shouldn't be sheltered from learning but we also shouldn't rub it in when they make a mistake. With the high cost of college I would argue making mistakes has become much more expensive than it used to be.
    - randomdata 10y ago

by jMyles 10y ago

austenallred 10y ago

Agreed, though if the incentives weren't so misaligned it wouldn't doom you to 20-30 years of struggle if/when you didn't think for yourself. For example, if the loans weren't backed by Uncle Sam there would be some threshold at which the loan providers would say "OK people studying this aren't getting jobs." Or if the universities that were promising careers had their feet held to the fire somehow before it had to reach ITT Tech billions of dollars. I've been thinking a lot about a model in which education is extended as credit. If students paid back a percentage of income how would that change colleges? I don't have all of the answers, and bootstrapping that kind of thing is rough, but I'm trying a few experiments along those lines that could be very interesting at scale.

kpwags 10y ago

I generally agree that you should think about what you're doing even if you're told to do so. That said, for someone 18 years old without a lot of life experience, when you're being told to go to college, that you need a college degree to succeed by just about everyone, and being bombarded from all sides with that message...might be a little difficult to really think otherwise. I'm fortunate that I went into a good field and didn't come out with too much debt, but I don't even want to think of what my family would have said if I questioned the need for college my senior year of high school.

bluedino 10y ago

Didn't people try placing the blame on that during the last housing bubble? "You're throwing money away renting, buy a house! The value will only go up!"

wu-ikkyu 10y ago

>The takeaway here is, in part: don't do something just because you're told to. Perhaps children shouldn't go to school at all then, seeing as how the mantra of the classroom is sit down, shut up, and do what you're told or else you are likely to be labeled with a mental disorder and drugged with amphetamines.

maxxxxx 10y ago

How is someone 18 years old supposed to figure out what to do? At that age I had no idea how the workplace works or how to get a career, don't event talk about a career I like. Some people have parents with insight or they just have luck but without guidance what do you do?

jMyles 10y ago
I think that 18 year-olds today are quite a lot more sophisticated than I was at 18. But yeah, it's tough; you need to survey multiple sources.
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  With all the sources telling you different things?
randomdata 10y ago
Growing up on the farm, I had more than a decade of workplace experience, marketable skills, and exposure to life lessons like learning how to learn by the age of 18. In fact, I started my current career when I was 17. To just start thinking about those things after the age of 18 is difficult to imagine. What I wonder is why we find it acceptable – desirable even – to shield children under the age of 18 from the reality they will face after that age? How did we reach a point where 18 year olds find themselves in your position? Historically, my experience would have been common. I think it is a travesty so many miss out in modern times. Learning about life has proven to not be a suitable replacement for engaging in life, in my opinion.
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  I think they shouldn't be sheltered from learning but we also shouldn't rub it in when they make a mistake. With the high cost of college I would argue making mistakes has become much more expensive than it used to be.
  - randomdata 10y ago