4 ms·

I'm pretty surprised by the comments here on decorum and civility. The customer called the product a "piece of shit" - yes he used bad language, but he's critic

I'm pretty surprised by the comments here on decorum and civility. The customer called the product a "piece of shit" - yes he used bad language, but he's criticising the product itself. An object. The rep. directly insulted the customer's character (saying he had "poor impulse control" and was throwing a "tantrum"). Is this another example of American tendencies to be extra sensitive about "profanity" or am I missing something? From my reading, the rep. was significantly more out of line even in his tone and message than the customer, even before he went and defacto-bricked the device in his own little tantrum. The character assassination gets even more childish if you look at the customer's account: > This user is suspended until Dec 28, 2019 3:37 am. > Reason: attitude

lawnchair_larry 10y ago
It's more of a HN thing than an American thing.
- lucideer 10y ago
  I dunno. Don't American's bleep their TV shows?
  - vidarh 10y ago
    It's quite amusing the see American guests on some of the ruder British talkshows, and see their reactions when some British guest swears, which often leads to more swearing when the British guests notice their reaction and choose to demonstrate just how much they can get away with. It's pretty much a standing joke on some shows - US guests on these shows fall in two categories: those who are aware of UK humour and/or the specific show (often people who live or have lived in the UK) and who are "in on it" and tend to play up the difference and play up to US stereotypes, and the unsuspecting innocents who have no idea what they're in for, and who get pounced on like prey.
    - lorenzhs 10y ago
      Here are some examples of what can happen on UK talk shows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTd4hw7mZEI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTd4hw7mZEI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4sGU_eFc40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4sGU_eFc40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RAE98uE7E&t=393 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RAE98uE7E&t=393
      - lucideer 10y ago
        To be fair, the UK are generally quite uptight about this kind of stuff as well - particularly on radio, but also on the majority of daytime TV. Graham is something of an exception, though he's been doing it for so many years now, his competitors are catching on.
        bartread 10y ago
        Quite so: he's definitely post-watershed material.
  - thrillgore 10y ago
    Only on over the air, and if it's only the word "fuck"
    - yellowapple 10y ago
      Other words do get bleeped, especially before watershed. Notably, about half of George Carlin's famous list of words not allowed on TV is subject to bleeping. Same deal on radio, though that's been loosening lately. Sublime's "Wrong Way" still omits "whore" and "tits" whenever I hear it on the radio, but some songs get away with "bitch", which I guess is progress.
      - slededit 10y ago
        At least on the east coast, the further south you go the more things get bleeped out.
    - nommm-nommm 10y ago
      Um....No. George Carlin even did a very famous stand up routine about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_dirty_words https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_dirty_words A few years ago Jon Stewart (late night cable) played a clip of the routine and they were all bleeped except for one.
vidarh 10y ago
I agree. If a company can't handle that reaction, I don't want to do business with them, so I'm at least grateful they made this public so people like me who don't want to deal with businesses like theirs are aware that a bad review may lead to insults and being prevented from using their product. As I've indicated elsewhere: this event also means I can't trust any of the reviews of their products, because it's clear they are happy to punish customers who leave bad reviews, and at least some proportion of customers will be aware of this when leaving reviews.
hehheh 10y ago
I'm also surprised at the amount of overly sensitive people defending Garadget here. Their basis -- that this customer was likely brought up wrong -- is a bit amusing. It suggests that the defenders were brought up to judge others based a single interaction, without any thought of context, or anything but the barest of social awareness. 'course, here I am doing the judging now.
- mizzao 10y ago
  Sounds like a case of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error
- hellofunk 10y ago
  Welcome to American culture. If you think this is bad, look at how parents judge other parents' parenting skills. Mom-shaming is one of the great American past-times. There are few cultures in the developed world with such a strong affinity for judging others. It's the root of the political climate, too: two people who might otherwise get along will, for example, often never have a second date once they discover they are from different political parties.
  - otterley 10y ago
    Shaming others is one of the basic acts of culture reinforcement. It's everywhere in one form of another, not just America. You might notice it here if you're a foreigner because what we shame might be different than where you come from.
    - hellofunk 10y ago
      Yes it is everywhere, but it definitely exists in different degrees among different cultures. Some societies show much greater preoccupation with other people's lives than other societies. Which is why some cultures are known as more "tolerant" than others.
    - incongruity 10y ago
nwordsam3 10y ago
Nope this is about most American tech workers being privileged yet gutless crypussies.
warent 10y ago
Fair enough. Previously his remarks seemed justified to me but I hadn't considered it from this angle before. I agree with you; personal attacks are never justified, and Denis Grisak is valuing his own work over a customer's bad experience. In other words, the creator would rather be alone with his product than have customers. That's fine, but in that case it's probably best to reconsider selling it altogether.
tlogan 10y ago
If you run a business, you generally do not want to deal with customers which are assholes, trolls, they cheat, lie, etc. And many companies rate customers and one which are rated low have longer wait time or harder time to get returns/refunds. I do not have proof but I think Amazon has that rating. Lyft has that. Uber has that. AirBnB, etc. But the BIG issue here is that you must treat customers with respect: if you do not want offer service to certain person, apologize, explain situation on your side (whatever - we are small team, we require dress code, etc.), offer refund, and that is that. Be nice. Be polite. In short, I do not have problem that they disable his account. Whatever - that is the business. I have problem with their attitude.

lawnchair_larry 10y ago

It's more of a HN thing than an American thing.

lucideer 10y ago
I dunno. Don't American's bleep their TV shows?
- vidarh 10y ago
  It's quite amusing the see American guests on some of the ruder British talkshows, and see their reactions when some British guest swears, which often leads to more swearing when the British guests notice their reaction and choose to demonstrate just how much they can get away with. It's pretty much a standing joke on some shows - US guests on these shows fall in two categories: those who are aware of UK humour and/or the specific show (often people who live or have lived in the UK) and who are "in on it" and tend to play up the difference and play up to US stereotypes, and the unsuspecting innocents who have no idea what they're in for, and who get pounced on like prey.
  - lorenzhs 10y ago
    Here are some examples of what can happen on UK talk shows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTd4hw7mZEI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTd4hw7mZEI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4sGU_eFc40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4sGU_eFc40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RAE98uE7E&t=393 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RAE98uE7E&t=393
    - lucideer 10y ago
      To be fair, the UK are generally quite uptight about this kind of stuff as well - particularly on radio, but also on the majority of daytime TV. Graham is something of an exception, though he's been doing it for so many years now, his competitors are catching on.
      - bartread 10y ago
        Quite so: he's definitely post-watershed material.
- thrillgore 10y ago
  Only on over the air, and if it's only the word "fuck"
  - yellowapple 10y ago
    Other words do get bleeped, especially before watershed. Notably, about half of George Carlin's famous list of words not allowed on TV is subject to bleeping. Same deal on radio, though that's been loosening lately. Sublime's "Wrong Way" still omits "whore" and "tits" whenever I hear it on the radio, but some songs get away with "bitch", which I guess is progress.
    - slededit 10y ago
      At least on the east coast, the further south you go the more things get bleeped out.
  - nommm-nommm 10y ago
    Um....No. George Carlin even did a very famous stand up routine about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_dirty_words https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_dirty_words A few years ago Jon Stewart (late night cable) played a clip of the routine and they were all bleeped except for one.

vidarh 10y ago

I agree. If a company can't handle that reaction, I don't want to do business with them, so I'm at least grateful they made this public so people like me who don't want to deal with businesses like theirs are aware that a bad review may lead to insults and being prevented from using their product. As I've indicated elsewhere: this event also means I can't trust any of the reviews of their products, because it's clear they are happy to punish customers who leave bad reviews, and at least some proportion of customers will be aware of this when leaving reviews.

hehheh 10y ago

I'm also surprised at the amount of overly sensitive people defending Garadget here. Their basis -- that this customer was likely brought up wrong -- is a bit amusing. It suggests that the defenders were brought up to judge others based a single interaction, without any thought of context, or anything but the barest of social awareness. 'course, here I am doing the judging now.

mizzao 10y ago
Sounds like a case of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error
hellofunk 10y ago
Welcome to American culture. If you think this is bad, look at how parents judge other parents' parenting skills. Mom-shaming is one of the great American past-times. There are few cultures in the developed world with such a strong affinity for judging others. It's the root of the political climate, too: two people who might otherwise get along will, for example, often never have a second date once they discover they are from different political parties.
- otterley 10y ago
  Shaming others is one of the basic acts of culture reinforcement. It's everywhere in one form of another, not just America. You might notice it here if you're a foreigner because what we shame might be different than where you come from.
  - hellofunk 10y ago
    Yes it is everywhere, but it definitely exists in different degrees among different cultures. Some societies show much greater preoccupation with other people's lives than other societies. Which is why some cultures are known as more "tolerant" than others.
  - incongruity 10y ago

nwordsam3 10y ago

Nope this is about most American tech workers being privileged yet gutless crypussies.

warent 10y ago

Fair enough. Previously his remarks seemed justified to me but I hadn't considered it from this angle before. I agree with you; personal attacks are never justified, and Denis Grisak is valuing his own work over a customer's bad experience. In other words, the creator would rather be alone with his product than have customers. That's fine, but in that case it's probably best to reconsider selling it altogether.

tlogan 10y ago

If you run a business, you generally do not want to deal with customers which are assholes, trolls, they cheat, lie, etc. And many companies rate customers and one which are rated low have longer wait time or harder time to get returns/refunds. I do not have proof but I think Amazon has that rating. Lyft has that. Uber has that. AirBnB, etc. But the BIG issue here is that you must treat customers with respect: if you do not want offer service to certain person, apologize, explain situation on your side (whatever - we are small team, we require dress code, etc.), offer refund, and that is that. Be nice. Be polite. In short, I do not have problem that they disable his account. Whatever - that is the business. I have problem with their attitude.