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This is still predicated on the assumption that there's a STEM shortage right? Almost everyone I know who has a graduate degree in CS came here on a visa. The

by jordanb 10y ago

This is still predicated on the assumption that there's a STEM shortage right? Almost everyone I know who has a graduate degree in CS came here on a visa. The reason is because employers don't reward graduate degrees in CS with compensation commiserate with their costs. So US nationals make the rational decision to not pursue a graduate degree. But if you're a foreign national, getting a graduate degree from a US school increases the likelihood of getting a Visa. So they make a different rational calculation. If employers want their programmers to have graduate degrees they can make the bump in pay worthwhile, and American students will start pursuing graduate degrees.

thr0waway1239 10y ago
>> This is still predicated on the assumption that there's a STEM shortage right? Not at all. It is predicated on the assumption that a programmer is not the same as a compiler writer, and the former cannot exist without the latter, while the latter can exist without the former. Almost none of the theoretical advances we are having in machine learning, deep learning and what-not could happen without some people who are crazy enough to venture into graduate degrees. Not everyone who holds a graduate degree can write a compiler, true. But by the same token, not everyone who calls themselves a programmer can code either.
cromwellian 10y ago
Aren't these Trump/Bannon attacks predicated on the idea that there's stem unemployment? The unemployment rate in the tech sector is what, less than 3%? Are there large groups of qualified Americans who can't get jobs because h1-b workers took them? That sounds fishy to me and if Americans aren't getting graduate degrees because of college costs, we can fix that by making college more affordable instead of making it harder to immigrate. If the issue is salary, we'll call me an old fashioned hacker but I prefer people interested in the pursuit of knowledge at high levels driven by passion for inquiry not monetary reward. I'd rather not have people enter graduate programs as carpet baggers interested mainly in the salary benefits of the title as opposed to the benefits of learning and researching. That's turning our institutions of higher learning effectively into body shops of another kind.
kelnos 10y ago
> Almost everyone I know who has a graduate degree in CS came here on a visa. The reason is because employers don't reward graduate degrees in CS with compensation commiserate with their costs. I think the main reason for that is because the vast majority of software jobs do not even remotely require a graduate degree in CS. A lot of great research into ML, data science, distributed systems, etc., is driven by people with graduate degrees, but that's still a very tiny part of the programmer-job pie.

by jordanb 10y ago

thr0waway1239 10y ago

>> This is still predicated on the assumption that there's a STEM shortage right? Not at all. It is predicated on the assumption that a programmer is not the same as a compiler writer, and the former cannot exist without the latter, while the latter can exist without the former. Almost none of the theoretical advances we are having in machine learning, deep learning and what-not could happen without some people who are crazy enough to venture into graduate degrees. Not everyone who holds a graduate degree can write a compiler, true. But by the same token, not everyone who calls themselves a programmer can code either.

cromwellian 10y ago

Aren't these Trump/Bannon attacks predicated on the idea that there's stem unemployment? The unemployment rate in the tech sector is what, less than 3%? Are there large groups of qualified Americans who can't get jobs because h1-b workers took them? That sounds fishy to me and if Americans aren't getting graduate degrees because of college costs, we can fix that by making college more affordable instead of making it harder to immigrate. If the issue is salary, we'll call me an old fashioned hacker but I prefer people interested in the pursuit of knowledge at high levels driven by passion for inquiry not monetary reward. I'd rather not have people enter graduate programs as carpet baggers interested mainly in the salary benefits of the title as opposed to the benefits of learning and researching. That's turning our institutions of higher learning effectively into body shops of another kind.

kelnos 10y ago

> Almost everyone I know who has a graduate degree in CS came here on a visa. The reason is because employers don't reward graduate degrees in CS with compensation commiserate with their costs. I think the main reason for that is because the vast majority of software jobs do not even remotely require a graduate degree in CS. A lot of great research into ML, data science, distributed systems, etc., is driven by people with graduate degrees, but that's still a very tiny part of the programmer-job pie.