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To be fair, drilling a 3 inch hole in a modern ATM is no easy task. We are talking about high-grade steel, a layer of fiberglass, etc. Hence "portable power dri

To be fair, drilling a 3 inch hole in a modern ATM is no easy task. We are talking about high-grade steel, a layer of fiberglass, etc. Hence "portable power drill" is a bit misleading.

kefka 10y ago
Maybe some of them are. Ive also found some that are crap. I have a tendency to pull on things like ATM covers, credit card slots, and the like. And that's because we have lots of skimmers that are found at local gas stations and places around here (big college presence). So far, I've found an opened gasoline pump door. I called attendant and went to a different pump (attendands didnt have keys for that....) . Ive also found an ATM that was partially locked and came opened when I gave it a tug. I called our bank's security after that one. I also found a skimmer on a gas pump as well. It had a fishy look to it and gave it a tug. Pop. Was just a simple card reader and cam module in 1. I harvested the parts and put the microsd card through a good format.
- lordvon 10y ago
  Where do you live?
  - kefka 10y ago
    Bloomington, IN.
    - jlgaddis 10y ago
      Heh, after your second paragraph I thought, "that sounds like here", then got down to this comment and realized it is (also in Bloomington).
      - kefka 10y ago
        Maybe we should do a HN meetup, Bloomington IN style :) Or you can come on over to our hackerspace, Bloominglabs. We have open houses every Wednesday from 7-10P, no matter what day that falls on :)
        jlgaddis 10y ago
        I'm on the -announce list so I get the occasional e-mail but, TBH, there really isn't much that interests me. I haven't been to the place on Rogers but I did visit the previous place (off Curry Pike) several times (I started a class there but "dropped out" after a few weeks due to work/travel). Perhaps I'll drop by the new place some time, though.
  - stevenwoo 10y ago
    Location surprisingly has less to do with the possiblity of it happening than one might think. There was a huge scam in Silicon Valley with card readers stuck inside of gas pumps so they were undetectable, that started five years ago. http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/02/21/six-arrested-for-skimming-credit-card-numbers-from-bay-area-gas-stations/ http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/02/21/six-arrested-for...
- christofosho 10y ago
  This worries me, especially given some locations take your card and swipe it for you. I'm going to be checking these types of things more closely from now on... It is kind of sad, how difficult it is to educate the public on scams such as these.
jessriedel 10y ago
Hard to tell what's actually inside them, but these sorts of ATMs don't look very intimidating: http://www.edmontonatm.com/images/rl1600.jpg http://www.edmontonatm.com/images/rl1600.jpg
- ams6110 10y ago
  That type of ATM is normally found in a hotel lobby or convenience store. Not the sort of place where you could expect to drill into it unnoticed.
- DonHopkins 10y ago
  I guess you never watched Breaking Bad. Those things can kill you!
- mod 10y ago
  I own one of these. It's inside a building that would be closed when no staff were around, and it doesn't ever contain enough money to be worth it to most people. I wouldn't leave that thing at an outside location with enough money in it to hurt me, unless the robberies were insured or so seldom as to be considered a cost of doing business.
knieveltech 10y ago
I think you may underestimate the capabilities of a portable drill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyq7xBUhsAo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyq7xBUhsAo Hell, depending on the gauge you could probably carve out a 3" hole with a dremel tool and a diamond bit in a reasonable amount of time.
- hackcasual 10y ago
  there's no comparing brick with composite/hard plate steel
  - jessaustin 10y ago
    Drilling through the generic zinc pot metal that everything that can't be made of plastic seems to be made of nowadays could leave one with a wildly inaccurate idea of how difficult it is to drill in hardened steel.
  - spyder 10y ago
    It's not fast but it's possible to cut steel too with cordless drill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj12WdVhOCc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj12WdVhOCc
    - hackcasual 10y ago
      Took him 8 minutes on what's probably mild steel. A high security enclosure might use something like hardened cast vanadium steel with carbide chips. You'll go through a sack of those drill bits even going through half an inch.
  - knieveltech 10y ago
    Sure there is. It's simple. If there are abrasives and cutting tools hard enough to drill rock, they will also carve through whatever steel alloy you care to bring to the party. Admittedly brick isn't the optimal choice for demonstrating my point but I can't find my favorite video of this guy drilling a sink drain out of a solid granite boulder so... Also, we are talking about ATM housings, not the internal cash box. You really think they're constructed out of unobtanium?
mrb 10y ago
Both thieves and Kaspersky have demonstrated a portable drill works in the real world. "Misleading" you say?
fnordfnordfnord 10y ago
It's not misleading at all. My portable power drills can injure you if you aren't careful. They are very powerful. Fiberglass is like butter to a hole saw. A carbide tipped hole saw can cut high grade steel, including stainless. It might not make many holes, but you only need it to make one.
- timthelion 10y ago
  But it cannot cut an old, dirty, high carbon cast pipe ;) an agle grinder with a universal cutting wheel can, but those are so loud that it would be better than an alarm, though personally, I'd just fill up the ATM with a little propane and let the sparks do the rest, as an anti-theft measure...
ilikeATMs 10y ago
Where the are drilling, next to the keypad is usually some kind of thin sheet metal or plastic or combination. The 'top' part of the ATM (which houses the PC running it, the cables and a bunch of other electronics) is usually extremely insecure (wafer locks you can pick, flimsy construction). The hardened part of the ATM is only the safe (which, by design, actually has several large holes in it as well). You won't be casually drilling through the safe with a hole-saw or other portable equipment without spending a considerable amount of time.

To be fair, drilling a 3 inch hole in a modern ATM is no easy task. We are talking about high-grade steel, a layer of fiberglass, etc. Hence "portable power drill" is a bit misleading.

kefka 10y ago

Maybe some of them are. Ive also found some that are crap. I have a tendency to pull on things like ATM covers, credit card slots, and the like. And that's because we have lots of skimmers that are found at local gas stations and places around here (big college presence). So far, I've found an opened gasoline pump door. I called attendant and went to a different pump (attendands didnt have keys for that....) . Ive also found an ATM that was partially locked and came opened when I gave it a tug. I called our bank's security after that one. I also found a skimmer on a gas pump as well. It had a fishy look to it and gave it a tug. Pop. Was just a simple card reader and cam module in 1. I harvested the parts and put the microsd card through a good format.

lordvon 10y ago
Where do you live?
- kefka 10y ago
  Bloomington, IN.
  - jlgaddis 10y ago
    Heh, after your second paragraph I thought, "that sounds like here", then got down to this comment and realized it is (also in Bloomington).
    - kefka 10y ago
      Maybe we should do a HN meetup, Bloomington IN style :) Or you can come on over to our hackerspace, Bloominglabs. We have open houses every Wednesday from 7-10P, no matter what day that falls on :)
      - jlgaddis 10y ago
        I'm on the -announce list so I get the occasional e-mail but, TBH, there really isn't much that interests me. I haven't been to the place on Rogers but I did visit the previous place (off Curry Pike) several times (I started a class there but "dropped out" after a few weeks due to work/travel). Perhaps I'll drop by the new place some time, though.
- stevenwoo 10y ago
  Location surprisingly has less to do with the possiblity of it happening than one might think. There was a huge scam in Silicon Valley with card readers stuck inside of gas pumps so they were undetectable, that started five years ago. http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/02/21/six-arrested-for-skimming-credit-card-numbers-from-bay-area-gas-stations/ http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/02/21/six-arrested-for...
christofosho 10y ago
This worries me, especially given some locations take your card and swipe it for you. I'm going to be checking these types of things more closely from now on... It is kind of sad, how difficult it is to educate the public on scams such as these.

jessriedel 10y ago

Hard to tell what's actually inside them, but these sorts of ATMs don't look very intimidating: http://www.edmontonatm.com/images/rl1600.jpg http://www.edmontonatm.com/images/rl1600.jpg

ams6110 10y ago
That type of ATM is normally found in a hotel lobby or convenience store. Not the sort of place where you could expect to drill into it unnoticed.
DonHopkins 10y ago
I guess you never watched Breaking Bad. Those things can kill you!
mod 10y ago
I own one of these. It's inside a building that would be closed when no staff were around, and it doesn't ever contain enough money to be worth it to most people. I wouldn't leave that thing at an outside location with enough money in it to hurt me, unless the robberies were insured or so seldom as to be considered a cost of doing business.

knieveltech 10y ago

I think you may underestimate the capabilities of a portable drill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyq7xBUhsAo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyq7xBUhsAo Hell, depending on the gauge you could probably carve out a 3" hole with a dremel tool and a diamond bit in a reasonable amount of time.

hackcasual 10y ago
there's no comparing brick with composite/hard plate steel
- jessaustin 10y ago
  Drilling through the generic zinc pot metal that everything that can't be made of plastic seems to be made of nowadays could leave one with a wildly inaccurate idea of how difficult it is to drill in hardened steel.
- spyder 10y ago
  It's not fast but it's possible to cut steel too with cordless drill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj12WdVhOCc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj12WdVhOCc
  - hackcasual 10y ago
    Took him 8 minutes on what's probably mild steel. A high security enclosure might use something like hardened cast vanadium steel with carbide chips. You'll go through a sack of those drill bits even going through half an inch.
- knieveltech 10y ago
  Sure there is. It's simple. If there are abrasives and cutting tools hard enough to drill rock, they will also carve through whatever steel alloy you care to bring to the party. Admittedly brick isn't the optimal choice for demonstrating my point but I can't find my favorite video of this guy drilling a sink drain out of a solid granite boulder so... Also, we are talking about ATM housings, not the internal cash box. You really think they're constructed out of unobtanium?

mrb 10y ago

Both thieves and Kaspersky have demonstrated a portable drill works in the real world. "Misleading" you say?

fnordfnordfnord 10y ago

It's not misleading at all. My portable power drills can injure you if you aren't careful. They are very powerful. Fiberglass is like butter to a hole saw. A carbide tipped hole saw can cut high grade steel, including stainless. It might not make many holes, but you only need it to make one.

timthelion 10y ago
But it cannot cut an old, dirty, high carbon cast pipe ;) an agle grinder with a universal cutting wheel can, but those are so loud that it would be better than an alarm, though personally, I'd just fill up the ATM with a little propane and let the sparks do the rest, as an anti-theft measure...

ilikeATMs 10y ago

Where the are drilling, next to the keypad is usually some kind of thin sheet metal or plastic or combination. The 'top' part of the ATM (which houses the PC running it, the cables and a bunch of other electronics) is usually extremely insecure (wafer locks you can pick, flimsy construction). The hardened part of the ATM is only the safe (which, by design, actually has several large holes in it as well). You won't be casually drilling through the safe with a hole-saw or other portable equipment without spending a considerable amount of time.