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There appears to have been a similar end to the Ancestral Puebloans (commonly refered as Anasazi). It appears they were hit by a climatic shift and had several

by throwaway2048 10y ago

There appears to have been a similar end to the Ancestral Puebloans (commonly refered as Anasazi). It appears they were hit by a climatic shift and had several years of very extreme drought (to the point no rain fell at all), and other enviromental factors, perhaps related to overexploitation of trees, leading to erosion of watersheds and topsoil. It seems that in the end, they just gave up and moved away south rather than dying out. The modern Hopi, aswell as other groups claim them as their direct ancestors. Hopi beleifs about sustainability, and "living close to nature" are pretty interesting in such a light. According to the Hopi, living a false, artifical life is a path to disaster and death, and destruction of the whole world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestral_Puebloans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestral_Puebloans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopi_mythology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopi_mythology

bluejekyll 10y ago
And the Maya of the Yucatán and Central America. Current thought is that through deforestation they created an arid zone. https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/06oct_maya https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/0... Then drought and social collapse. There are a number of stories like this in the pacific as well, like Easter Island: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Island https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Island For everyone who disagrees about climate change, it's hard to argue that on local levels humans can cause severe changes to the local environment. Jared Diamond's, 'Collapse' is a great read on this stuff.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
stcredzero 10y ago
It seems that in the end, they just gave up and moved away south rather than dying out. There may be a bit more to it than that. The better known cliff dwellings have unfinished meals and chores that were simply abandoned midway. I stayed at a B&B which had an archaeological dig on the grounds, and read the report about the dig, which was on the coffee table. There was evidence of cannibalism. The diet the Ancestral Puebloans ate was prone to certain deficiencies which could be overcome by supplementation with meat. A climactic shift could have caused difficulty in obtaining game. The archaeological report made references to a theory about a secret society/cannibal cult, whose members became more powerful in part because they were the only ones around who weren't undernourished. So it's not just that they gave up and left. Life might have become weird and crappy in some frightening ways before they managed to leave.
Stranger43 10y ago
The difference here is that we are talking about registered tax paying catholics vanishing without leaving corpses over a period of maybe 10 years. I.E. the record suggest that the last holdouts did not die on Greenland but boarded a ship that never got recorded back in Europe.(though that don't mean they never made it back) The Kensington rune stone with dated in a system common to the Christian viking age around the time when one of the expedition launched from Norway to find the missing tax payers adds to the mystery presuming that the Kensington runestone is genuine.
- ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
  It's almost certainly a fake. As the late Samuel Eliot Morrison described it, 'Scandanknavery'.
  - kpil 10y ago
    Isn't it a stretch to call them "Vikings?" They where clearly Norwegians. The Kalmar Union was in effect in 1450, and the kingdoms had been formed for long. There were at least two Universities in Scandinavia, etc.
    - gozur88 10y ago
      >Isn't it a stretch to call them "Vikings?" Are you saying we shouldn't call them Vikings because they weren't engaged in raiding and piracy, or we shouldn't call them Vikings because they were Norwegian?
      - kpil 10y ago
        I am not sure what constitutes 'vikingness', but the government, culture and economy was nothing like what I think comes to mind when thinking of vikings. The viking era ended 400 years before, because of Christianity and the rise of strong kings and kingdoms. (Working together) They certainly did not call themselves vikings, if some ever did.
  - deleted 10y ago

bluejekyll 10y ago

And the Maya of the Yucatán and Central America. Current thought is that through deforestation they created an arid zone. https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/06oct_maya https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/0... Then drought and social collapse. There are a number of stories like this in the pacific as well, like Easter Island: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Island https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Island For everyone who disagrees about climate change, it's hard to argue that on local levels humans can cause severe changes to the local environment. Jared Diamond's, 'Collapse' is a great read on this stuff.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

stcredzero 10y ago

It seems that in the end, they just gave up and moved away south rather than dying out. There may be a bit more to it than that. The better known cliff dwellings have unfinished meals and chores that were simply abandoned midway. I stayed at a B&B which had an archaeological dig on the grounds, and read the report about the dig, which was on the coffee table. There was evidence of cannibalism. The diet the Ancestral Puebloans ate was prone to certain deficiencies which could be overcome by supplementation with meat. A climactic shift could have caused difficulty in obtaining game. The archaeological report made references to a theory about a secret society/cannibal cult, whose members became more powerful in part because they were the only ones around who weren't undernourished. So it's not just that they gave up and left. Life might have become weird and crappy in some frightening ways before they managed to leave.

Stranger43 10y ago

The difference here is that we are talking about registered tax paying catholics vanishing without leaving corpses over a period of maybe 10 years. I.E. the record suggest that the last holdouts did not die on Greenland but boarded a ship that never got recorded back in Europe.(though that don't mean they never made it back) The Kensington rune stone with dated in a system common to the Christian viking age around the time when one of the expedition launched from Norway to find the missing tax payers adds to the mystery presuming that the Kensington runestone is genuine.

ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
It's almost certainly a fake. As the late Samuel Eliot Morrison described it, 'Scandanknavery'.
- kpil 10y ago
  Isn't it a stretch to call them "Vikings?" They where clearly Norwegians. The Kalmar Union was in effect in 1450, and the kingdoms had been formed for long. There were at least two Universities in Scandinavia, etc.
  - gozur88 10y ago
    >Isn't it a stretch to call them "Vikings?" Are you saying we shouldn't call them Vikings because they weren't engaged in raiding and piracy, or we shouldn't call them Vikings because they were Norwegian?
    - kpil 10y ago
      I am not sure what constitutes 'vikingness', but the government, culture and economy was nothing like what I think comes to mind when thinking of vikings. The viking era ended 400 years before, because of Christianity and the rise of strong kings and kingdoms. (Working together) They certainly did not call themselves vikings, if some ever did.
- deleted 10y ago