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Clickbait title keyed to feed our current robot fears. Should at least have the qualifier " for low skilled jobs in the manufacturing sector"

by harryf 10y ago

dspillett 10y ago
> qualifier " for low skilled jobs in the manufacturing sector" For most of the people whose main reason for voting for Brexit was immigration's effects on jobs, these are the jobs that they seem the immigrants as competition for. The theory is that the immigrants were willing to work for less so "stole" the menial, mind-numbing, often physical, & sometimes seasonal jobs. Having a number of such complainers in my family and otherwise in ear-shot I'd say the issue for many employers is not "being willing to work for less" but more "being willing to work to much of a standard at any price", but I digress... If the robots work out cheaper over a short enough amount of time (allowing for the large up-front investment in both the robots directly and any changes needed to make the environment one that can be efficient in) then it is logical that businesses will let them "steal" the jobs instead of accepting that they'll have to pay local workers more. > keyed to feed our current robot fears This isn't the first article to cover the possibility. I've been reading the headlines, particularly those in the UK press, as more a poke at the people who voted for leaving mainly due to the jobs issue - a message of "not what you wanted, eh?, don't say we didn't tell you...".
- harryf 10y ago
  > The theory is that the immigrants were willing to work for less so "stole" the menial, mind-numbing, often physical, & sometimes seasonal jobs. Except recent studies show that most EU migrants go for high skilled jobs and that the migrant impact on low skilled jobs is small - see below. > The positive impact of recent European migration to Britain is highlighted by the fact that the UK now attracts the highest number of university-educated migrants of any country in the European Union, according to new research from University College London. - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/uk-magnet-highly-educated-migrants-research https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/uk-magnet-hi... > In 2015, there were approximately 3.3 million EU immigrants living in Britain. About a third live in London. EU migrants tend to be younger and better educated than the UK-born population. > Do low-skilled UK citizens bear the brunt of EU migration? A number of studies have found there is a small negative effect of migration on the wages of low-skilled workers — those with whom migrants compete most directly. - https://www.ft.com/content/0deacb52-178b-11e6-9d98-00386a18e39d https://www.ft.com/content/0deacb52-178b-11e6-9d98-00386a18e...
  - dspillett 10y ago
    > > The theory is that the immigrants were willing to work for less so "stole" the menial, mind-numbing, often physical, & sometimes seasonal jobs. > Except recent studies show that most EU migrants go for high skilled jobs and that the migrant impact on low skilled jobs is small - see below. No studies to hand to back up my intuition, but looking at the balance of backgrounds in retail/cafes/restaurants (viewed from my position as a customer), and factory work (as someone who knows people who both work on and manage production lines) I find it hard to believe that immigration doesn't have a significant impact on those areas. There is plenty of migration in my line of work (pretty technical, relatively well paid, significant experience needed) too of course. Healthcare is another sector that is likely to be affected by a reduction in incoming workers. But most of the people who cite immigration as a problem for their jobs are not, in my experience, generally qualified for any such technical/experienced roles.
- TheGirondin 10y ago
  I have the opposite reaction to this. The open borders crowd has been insistent that Western nations don't have enough poor people to work low skilled jobs, so they argue we need to import them in mass from other countries. But, as you said, if the robots work out cheaper over a short enough amount of time then it is logical we will not to continue with virtually unlimited immigration.
  - Oletros 10y ago
    ´What unlimited immigration? Do you have numbers to support that claim?
    - TheGirondin 10y ago
      I said "virtually unlimited." Try not deliberately taking me out context next time.
      - Oletros 10y ago
        Then I will change with "Virtually unlimited?"
        TheGirondin 10y ago
        So what limits do you want want put on immigration? What steps would take to prevent people from coming a country like the US or the UK illegally? What would you do with people who are there illegally? If you like most pro-immigration people, my guesses are A) almost none (certainly no hard caps on numbers), B) almost nothing, C) rather than deport them, instead give them drivers licences and social welfare benefits. When you take everything into account, their position is that they want virtually no limits on immigration.
        Oletros 10y ago
        > So what limits do you want want put on immigration? I didn't asked about limits or not, I asked you proof about your claim that NOW in the UK there is "virtually unlimited immigration". You have not answered. > What steps would take to prevent people from coming a country like the US or the UK illegally? What has to do illegal immigration with this thread? This article talks about LEGAL workers > If you like most pro-immigration people, You don't know what I think because I didn't write about my opinions about immigration. I just asked one claim done by you without any proof to back it. > When you take everything into account, their position is that they want virtually no limits on immigration. Opinion that has nothing to do with your actual claim. Or perhaps is that you're confused and think that "European migrants" are illegal migrants

Clickbait title keyed to feed our current robot fears. Should at least have the qualifier " for low skilled jobs in the manufacturing sector"

by harryf 10y ago

Clickbait title keyed to feed our current robot fears. Should at least have the qualifier " for low skilled jobs in the manufacturing sector"

dspillett 10y ago

> qualifier " for low skilled jobs in the manufacturing sector" For most of the people whose main reason for voting for Brexit was immigration's effects on jobs, these are the jobs that they seem the immigrants as competition for. The theory is that the immigrants were willing to work for less so "stole" the menial, mind-numbing, often physical, & sometimes seasonal jobs. Having a number of such complainers in my family and otherwise in ear-shot I'd say the issue for many employers is not "being willing to work for less" but more "being willing to work to much of a standard at any price", but I digress... If the robots work out cheaper over a short enough amount of time (allowing for the large up-front investment in both the robots directly and any changes needed to make the environment one that can be efficient in) then it is logical that businesses will let them "steal" the jobs instead of accepting that they'll have to pay local workers more. > keyed to feed our current robot fears This isn't the first article to cover the possibility. I've been reading the headlines, particularly those in the UK press, as more a poke at the people who voted for leaving mainly due to the jobs issue - a message of "not what you wanted, eh?, don't say we didn't tell you...".

harryf 10y ago
> The theory is that the immigrants were willing to work for less so "stole" the menial, mind-numbing, often physical, & sometimes seasonal jobs. Except recent studies show that most EU migrants go for high skilled jobs and that the migrant impact on low skilled jobs is small - see below. > The positive impact of recent European migration to Britain is highlighted by the fact that the UK now attracts the highest number of university-educated migrants of any country in the European Union, according to new research from University College London. - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/uk-magnet-highly-educated-migrants-research https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/uk-magnet-hi... > In 2015, there were approximately 3.3 million EU immigrants living in Britain. About a third live in London. EU migrants tend to be younger and better educated than the UK-born population. > Do low-skilled UK citizens bear the brunt of EU migration? A number of studies have found there is a small negative effect of migration on the wages of low-skilled workers — those with whom migrants compete most directly. - https://www.ft.com/content/0deacb52-178b-11e6-9d98-00386a18e39d https://www.ft.com/content/0deacb52-178b-11e6-9d98-00386a18e...
- dspillett 10y ago
  > > The theory is that the immigrants were willing to work for less so "stole" the menial, mind-numbing, often physical, & sometimes seasonal jobs. > Except recent studies show that most EU migrants go for high skilled jobs and that the migrant impact on low skilled jobs is small - see below. No studies to hand to back up my intuition, but looking at the balance of backgrounds in retail/cafes/restaurants (viewed from my position as a customer), and factory work (as someone who knows people who both work on and manage production lines) I find it hard to believe that immigration doesn't have a significant impact on those areas. There is plenty of migration in my line of work (pretty technical, relatively well paid, significant experience needed) too of course. Healthcare is another sector that is likely to be affected by a reduction in incoming workers. But most of the people who cite immigration as a problem for their jobs are not, in my experience, generally qualified for any such technical/experienced roles.
TheGirondin 10y ago
I have the opposite reaction to this. The open borders crowd has been insistent that Western nations don't have enough poor people to work low skilled jobs, so they argue we need to import them in mass from other countries. But, as you said, if the robots work out cheaper over a short enough amount of time then it is logical we will not to continue with virtually unlimited immigration.
- Oletros 10y ago
  ´What unlimited immigration? Do you have numbers to support that claim?
  - TheGirondin 10y ago
    I said "virtually unlimited." Try not deliberately taking me out context next time.
    - Oletros 10y ago
      Then I will change with "Virtually unlimited?"
      - TheGirondin 10y ago
        So what limits do you want want put on immigration? What steps would take to prevent people from coming a country like the US or the UK illegally? What would you do with people who are there illegally? If you like most pro-immigration people, my guesses are A) almost none (certainly no hard caps on numbers), B) almost nothing, C) rather than deport them, instead give them drivers licences and social welfare benefits. When you take everything into account, their position is that they want virtually no limits on immigration.
        Oletros 10y ago
        > So what limits do you want want put on immigration? I didn't asked about limits or not, I asked you proof about your claim that NOW in the UK there is "virtually unlimited immigration". You have not answered. > What steps would take to prevent people from coming a country like the US or the UK illegally? What has to do illegal immigration with this thread? This article talks about LEGAL workers > If you like most pro-immigration people, You don't know what I think because I didn't write about my opinions about immigration. I just asked one claim done by you without any proof to back it. > When you take everything into account, their position is that they want virtually no limits on immigration. Opinion that has nothing to do with your actual claim. Or perhaps is that you're confused and think that "European migrants" are illegal migrants