4 ms·

It's meant to be rhetorical; of course being born makes you worthy of survival! But what if working doesn't provide you enough sustenance? And what if you don't

by bsmith 10y ago

It's meant to be rhetorical; of course being born makes you worthy of survival! But what if working doesn't provide you enough sustenance? And what if you don't even have the opportunity in the first place, once the demand for human labor is low enough?

devoply 10y ago
We have more than enough resources. If working does not provide enough sustenance then we need to replace the government. These are political issues not economic ones. We can solve the problem of production with automation, however the problem of distribution remains and if the government is not distributing resources to you then you need to take that government down and replace it with one that does. That ultimatum hopefully makes politicians understand that they are no longer serving their corporate overlords but the people. They have been ignoring the people so long that might get some getting used to. Most innovation done today I would say a good 99% of what constitutes the job market is trivial and can be automated away in the next 50 years. What remains is the 1% of scientists and engineers that actually make shit happen and strive to change the game. It's fine with me if these people live like kings and the rest of us have enough resources and all the free time in the world to do whatever we want and not be encumbered by trivial work. Maybe we can bring back hunting gathering civilizations or other microcosms of civilization and ways of life.
- pharrlax 10y ago
  >It's fine with me if these people live like kings and the rest of us have enough resources and all the free time in the world to do whatever we want and not be encumbered by trivial work. One problem with this that springs to mind is that historically, relative numbers of young, bored, jobless men and crime rates are tightly correlated.
  - devoply 10y ago
    Gaming. Virtual reality. Virtual reality porn. They can be hooligans there. You want somewhere to prove yourself do it there. We should in fact create a de facto virtual reality simulation to take over lots of useless social things we do with material goods and services like expensive cars, clothing, and whatnot. All the conspicuous consumption can happen in virtual reality. That's much better for the environment too. Leave the actual real world alone and focus on implementing our imaginations in the virtual world. It's already happening: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-video-games-jobs-emploment-20160923-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-video-games-jobs-e... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/13/gamer-prefers-virtual-world_n_7789168.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/13/gamer-prefers-virtu...
    - pc86 10y ago
      This argument ignores history, human psychology, and basic reality.
      - devoply 10y ago
        Human beings don't live in reality they live in their imaginations work to bring that imagination into the real world through technology. History is just that history, we never had this sort of tech so looking to history and saying it won't work is irrelevant. Basic psychology is that humans don't live in the real world but in their imaginations. There is already a subsection of society that's already so involved in gaming that they don't care about the "real" world any more, links on the edit above.
  - jk563 10y ago
    I think that instead of creating pseudo-jobs to counter this, perhaps we look into the 'bored' aspect. Can we provide stimulation to avert the negative results seen historically? When we say that we have and distribute the resources needed to survive, do we include entertainment among these resources?
crispyambulance 10y ago
... and that's when you reach for the pitchforks along with the others.
- jbob2000 10y ago
  And get crushed by drone strikes. The old methods of overthrowing power don't work any more!
  - crispyambulance 10y ago
    mmm, don't be so sure about that, at least not yet. Drone strikes have failed to "crush" any insurgency thus far and there is a strong argument that they've inflammed the situation wherever they've been used as weapons. Moreover, "pitchforks" come in many forms.
    - gremlinsinc 10y ago
      THere's also the fact that given enough timeline when 90% of the world's population is out on the street, All economies will suffer, because you cannot have capitalism IF you don't have consumers. No purchases = No income. -- UBI puts money in pockets, for people to keep consuming locally, and props up local economies.
    - TheAdamAndChe 10y ago
      Exactly. The reason the US has had a drawn-out War on Terror right now is because it has the potential to hurt us more than anything else. Asymmetric warfare strategies can be very, very effective while using almost no resources.
      - kefka 10y ago
        Absolutely. And there are many a jobs that can allow a great amount of destruction on the sly, and cheaply. I'll refrain about mentioning exactly what - but many of us are engineers. It would not be difficult to get some ideas.
  - 10y ago

by bsmith 10y ago

devoply 10y ago

We have more than enough resources. If working does not provide enough sustenance then we need to replace the government. These are political issues not economic ones. We can solve the problem of production with automation, however the problem of distribution remains and if the government is not distributing resources to you then you need to take that government down and replace it with one that does. That ultimatum hopefully makes politicians understand that they are no longer serving their corporate overlords but the people. They have been ignoring the people so long that might get some getting used to. Most innovation done today I would say a good 99% of what constitutes the job market is trivial and can be automated away in the next 50 years. What remains is the 1% of scientists and engineers that actually make shit happen and strive to change the game. It's fine with me if these people live like kings and the rest of us have enough resources and all the free time in the world to do whatever we want and not be encumbered by trivial work. Maybe we can bring back hunting gathering civilizations or other microcosms of civilization and ways of life.

pharrlax 10y ago
>It's fine with me if these people live like kings and the rest of us have enough resources and all the free time in the world to do whatever we want and not be encumbered by trivial work. One problem with this that springs to mind is that historically, relative numbers of young, bored, jobless men and crime rates are tightly correlated.
- devoply 10y ago
  Gaming. Virtual reality. Virtual reality porn. They can be hooligans there. You want somewhere to prove yourself do it there. We should in fact create a de facto virtual reality simulation to take over lots of useless social things we do with material goods and services like expensive cars, clothing, and whatnot. All the conspicuous consumption can happen in virtual reality. That's much better for the environment too. Leave the actual real world alone and focus on implementing our imaginations in the virtual world. It's already happening: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-video-games-jobs-emploment-20160923-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-video-games-jobs-e... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/13/gamer-prefers-virtual-world_n_7789168.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/13/gamer-prefers-virtu...
  - pc86 10y ago
    This argument ignores history, human psychology, and basic reality.
    - devoply 10y ago
      Human beings don't live in reality they live in their imaginations work to bring that imagination into the real world through technology. History is just that history, we never had this sort of tech so looking to history and saying it won't work is irrelevant. Basic psychology is that humans don't live in the real world but in their imaginations. There is already a subsection of society that's already so involved in gaming that they don't care about the "real" world any more, links on the edit above.
- jk563 10y ago
  I think that instead of creating pseudo-jobs to counter this, perhaps we look into the 'bored' aspect. Can we provide stimulation to avert the negative results seen historically? When we say that we have and distribute the resources needed to survive, do we include entertainment among these resources?

crispyambulance 10y ago

... and that's when you reach for the pitchforks along with the others.

jbob2000 10y ago
And get crushed by drone strikes. The old methods of overthrowing power don't work any more!
- crispyambulance 10y ago
  mmm, don't be so sure about that, at least not yet. Drone strikes have failed to "crush" any insurgency thus far and there is a strong argument that they've inflammed the situation wherever they've been used as weapons. Moreover, "pitchforks" come in many forms.
  - gremlinsinc 10y ago
    THere's also the fact that given enough timeline when 90% of the world's population is out on the street, All economies will suffer, because you cannot have capitalism IF you don't have consumers. No purchases = No income. -- UBI puts money in pockets, for people to keep consuming locally, and props up local economies.
  - TheAdamAndChe 10y ago
    Exactly. The reason the US has had a drawn-out War on Terror right now is because it has the potential to hurt us more than anything else. Asymmetric warfare strategies can be very, very effective while using almost no resources.
    - kefka 10y ago
      Absolutely. And there are many a jobs that can allow a great amount of destruction on the sly, and cheaply. I'll refrain about mentioning exactly what - but many of us are engineers. It would not be difficult to get some ideas.
- 10y ago