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To put this into context, BMW, Audi and Mercedes moved around 200k each. Porsche managed about 60k. Jaguar Land Rover did around 130k. Zero to 25k is solid gro

To put this into context, BMW, Audi and Mercedes moved around 200k each. Porsche managed about 60k. Jaguar Land Rover did around 130k. Zero to 25k is solid growth, but they're still a long way from bring equal, let alone dominant and profitable, which feels like where people think they'll be in the future.

martin_bech 10y ago
To put that into context, most of those cars are not Full Size luxury sedans. Tesla only has 2 models right now, and completely dominates the fullsize luxury space. http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2017/01/usa-december-2016-large-luxury-car-sales-stats.html http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2017/01/usa-december-2016-large...
- oblio 10y ago
  Hmm... you've linked a report with data only for the US for the other manufacturers, while, as far as I can see, Tesla's report is for global sales. I doubt Tesla dominates anything regarding global sales, at this moment :)
  - parhurs 10y ago
    The link does have estimates for Tesla U.S. sales in December 2016. Tesla: 2400 (WSJ) to 5300 (hybridcars.com) compared to the "class leading" Mercedes-Benz S-Class: 1494. It does seem Tesla is dominating in this class (luxury cars). Figures for the whole year are 26,525 - 29,156 (Tesla) vs. 18,803 (Mercedes-Benz S-Class).
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      I really don't see Tesla to be even close to an S-Class, totally different market.
    - raisedbyninjas 10y ago
      Drivetrain aside, I think the E-class would compare favorably to the model S for many people. This comparison is similar to the Apple computers sales numbers at least from the Jobs days. They would claim to set sales records, but only had a 4 model lineup when their competition would have 6 models just in their SOHO lineup.
    - petewailes 10y ago
      I'm willing to go out on a limb and say the S Class and the Model S aren't in the same category. The E would be closer, but given the mindset behind purchasing each, I'm not certain there is a competitor to the Model S. There's no equivalent to "buying a Tesla" for another brand, which is a lot of why you buy one. The picture gets more interesting when you look outside the US, where they sell about 15/20% of the E class, BMW 5 series, Audi A4 and other similar cars, which are a much closer match to a Tesla.
      - votingprawn 10y ago
        Whilst I like and appreciate the technology in the Model S, I too would struggle to class them as luxury along side the S class. I genuinely find the fit, finish, and comfort (cabin noise in particular - thank you double glazing!) in my 20 year old S Class to be better. The E-class feels a much better comparison to me.
      - koreyb 10y ago
        It is a tough comparison. E class starts at $52k USD, Tesla Model S at $72k (no fed tax credit, and the 60 will be discontinued soon so jumps to $78k w/ the 75), S class at $97k. Model S tops out at $160k, S class at ~$250k w/ a S65 or technically a Maybach. Interior and luxury the S class wins for sure. Performance and tech the Tesla wins.
        Cyph0n 10y ago
        Are you sure that Tesla's tech is significantly better than that of a S class? The S class Benz has been at the forefront of safety tech for over a decade now; I recall it having adaptive cruise control in 2005 or so.
        koreyb 10y ago
        I didn't write significantly. Anecdotally, it is better (I own both). Highway self-driving, OTA updates, situational awareness, screens, auto Homelink, GPS air suspension, etc.
- sf_rob 10y ago
  This is also an unfair comparison, since it's unclear how inelastic demand is for full size luxury sedans vs mid size luxury sedans. I'd bet that if BMW stopped selling the 1-4 series, a decent chunk of their followers would buy a 5+ series. Likewise, many people buy a Model S because they want a Tesla and would buy a 3 if it were available.
breeze_em_out 10y ago
"To put this into context, here are some numbers that describe completely different products from completely different companies." Exactly what context is this supposed to be?
- gutnor 10y ago
  Tesla stock is speculative. You can't really compare Tesla to its specific market slice without losing much of the big picture. The car market is a huge market, so there is a lot of room for Tesla to grow. Tesla is at a junction point right now. It is a strong player on the Luxury segment (eg: Porsche territory), and they seem to be going for the Premium segment (eg: BMW territory) which is what their valuation expect it to go. It looks like the natural way to go, especially considering the investment in SuperCharger network. Except when you consider the scale of that market. Tesla would need to be able to scale by an order of magnitude (think dealer and garage network too) and a huge chunk of those purchases are fleet purchases. Once the competition enter the premium electric market ( all the premium brand have a 2020 target date, which of course means potentially nothing ), Tesla will need to be ready to have a new generation of all its car ready and be ready to do refreshes on a regular basis. Even that context is not the full context. Automatic driving is coming which will change the relationship of people to car owning. Tesla is a growth company, if you don't think they can go bigger you should short them.
  - emergencevector 10y ago
    be able to scale by an order of magnitude (think dealer and garage network too) I hope they can do this without a dealer network.
    - gutnor 10y ago
      They will need a network of places to buy and repair. There are something like 15 showrooms in the whole of UK, half of them in London. 7 Service Centers. A then Tesla.com lists the BlueWater as a showroom. It had 2 cars last time I was there, both in the same colour. That's not nearly enough to sell a popular car in the premium segment. note: I understand that Dealer is something special in the US. I use the term liberally to mean "Some places that sells Tesla car". I believe that the hate of Dealer in the US is not so fundamental that they would buy a 30K car online only. Hell Apple is doing great with Apple Store with the opposite approach and nothing they sell is close to the same level of financial commitment.
bmwfanboy 10y ago
Actually BMW, Audi and Mercedes are selling around 150k-200k vehicles monthly, not quarterly. For Q3 2016 BMW sold 583.499 vehicles. (source: https://www.bmwgroup.com/content/dam/bmw-group-websites/bmwgroup_com/ir/downloads/en/2016/quartalsbericht/Q3_2016_BMW_Group_en_Online.pdf https://www.bmwgroup.com/content/dam/bmw-group-websites/bmwg...)
- csomar 10y ago
  Username checks out. But that looks to me like Tesla still have "yuge" room for growth.

martin_bech 10y ago

To put that into context, most of those cars are not Full Size luxury sedans. Tesla only has 2 models right now, and completely dominates the fullsize luxury space. http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2017/01/usa-december-2016-large-luxury-car-sales-stats.html http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2017/01/usa-december-2016-large...

oblio 10y ago
Hmm... you've linked a report with data only for the US for the other manufacturers, while, as far as I can see, Tesla's report is for global sales. I doubt Tesla dominates anything regarding global sales, at this moment :)
- parhurs 10y ago
  The link does have estimates for Tesla U.S. sales in December 2016. Tesla: 2400 (WSJ) to 5300 (hybridcars.com) compared to the "class leading" Mercedes-Benz S-Class: 1494. It does seem Tesla is dominating in this class (luxury cars). Figures for the whole year are 26,525 - 29,156 (Tesla) vs. 18,803 (Mercedes-Benz S-Class).
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    I really don't see Tesla to be even close to an S-Class, totally different market.
  - raisedbyninjas 10y ago
    Drivetrain aside, I think the E-class would compare favorably to the model S for many people. This comparison is similar to the Apple computers sales numbers at least from the Jobs days. They would claim to set sales records, but only had a 4 model lineup when their competition would have 6 models just in their SOHO lineup.
  - petewailes 10y ago
    I'm willing to go out on a limb and say the S Class and the Model S aren't in the same category. The E would be closer, but given the mindset behind purchasing each, I'm not certain there is a competitor to the Model S. There's no equivalent to "buying a Tesla" for another brand, which is a lot of why you buy one. The picture gets more interesting when you look outside the US, where they sell about 15/20% of the E class, BMW 5 series, Audi A4 and other similar cars, which are a much closer match to a Tesla.
    - votingprawn 10y ago
      Whilst I like and appreciate the technology in the Model S, I too would struggle to class them as luxury along side the S class. I genuinely find the fit, finish, and comfort (cabin noise in particular - thank you double glazing!) in my 20 year old S Class to be better. The E-class feels a much better comparison to me.
    - koreyb 10y ago
      It is a tough comparison. E class starts at $52k USD, Tesla Model S at $72k (no fed tax credit, and the 60 will be discontinued soon so jumps to $78k w/ the 75), S class at $97k. Model S tops out at $160k, S class at ~$250k w/ a S65 or technically a Maybach. Interior and luxury the S class wins for sure. Performance and tech the Tesla wins.
      - Cyph0n 10y ago
        Are you sure that Tesla's tech is significantly better than that of a S class? The S class Benz has been at the forefront of safety tech for over a decade now; I recall it having adaptive cruise control in 2005 or so.
        koreyb 10y ago
        I didn't write significantly. Anecdotally, it is better (I own both). Highway self-driving, OTA updates, situational awareness, screens, auto Homelink, GPS air suspension, etc.
sf_rob 10y ago
This is also an unfair comparison, since it's unclear how inelastic demand is for full size luxury sedans vs mid size luxury sedans. I'd bet that if BMW stopped selling the 1-4 series, a decent chunk of their followers would buy a 5+ series. Likewise, many people buy a Model S because they want a Tesla and would buy a 3 if it were available.

breeze_em_out 10y ago

"To put this into context, here are some numbers that describe completely different products from completely different companies." Exactly what context is this supposed to be?

gutnor 10y ago
Tesla stock is speculative. You can't really compare Tesla to its specific market slice without losing much of the big picture. The car market is a huge market, so there is a lot of room for Tesla to grow. Tesla is at a junction point right now. It is a strong player on the Luxury segment (eg: Porsche territory), and they seem to be going for the Premium segment (eg: BMW territory) which is what their valuation expect it to go. It looks like the natural way to go, especially considering the investment in SuperCharger network. Except when you consider the scale of that market. Tesla would need to be able to scale by an order of magnitude (think dealer and garage network too) and a huge chunk of those purchases are fleet purchases. Once the competition enter the premium electric market ( all the premium brand have a 2020 target date, which of course means potentially nothing ), Tesla will need to be ready to have a new generation of all its car ready and be ready to do refreshes on a regular basis. Even that context is not the full context. Automatic driving is coming which will change the relationship of people to car owning. Tesla is a growth company, if you don't think they can go bigger you should short them.
- emergencevector 10y ago
  be able to scale by an order of magnitude (think dealer and garage network too) I hope they can do this without a dealer network.
  - gutnor 10y ago
    They will need a network of places to buy and repair. There are something like 15 showrooms in the whole of UK, half of them in London. 7 Service Centers. A then Tesla.com lists the BlueWater as a showroom. It had 2 cars last time I was there, both in the same colour. That's not nearly enough to sell a popular car in the premium segment. note: I understand that Dealer is something special in the US. I use the term liberally to mean "Some places that sells Tesla car". I believe that the hate of Dealer in the US is not so fundamental that they would buy a 30K car online only. Hell Apple is doing great with Apple Store with the opposite approach and nothing they sell is close to the same level of financial commitment.

bmwfanboy 10y ago

Actually BMW, Audi and Mercedes are selling around 150k-200k vehicles monthly, not quarterly. For Q3 2016 BMW sold 583.499 vehicles. (source: https://www.bmwgroup.com/content/dam/bmw-group-websites/bmwgroup_com/ir/downloads/en/2016/quartalsbericht/Q3_2016_BMW_Group_en_Online.pdf https://www.bmwgroup.com/content/dam/bmw-group-websites/bmwg...)

csomar 10y ago
Username checks out. But that looks to me like Tesla still have "yuge" room for growth.