5 ms·

One other point, these cloud companies like Amazon and Google do a great deal of self congratulations for some pretty embarrassing architectures. Necessitating

by kev009 10y ago

One other point, these cloud companies like Amazon and Google do a great deal of self congratulations for some pretty embarrassing architectures. Necessitating million server datacenters is as WTF to me as being proud of millions of lines of code when someone else is doing it with magnitudes less. 40G networking has been commercially viable since the top of the decade and 100G (or partial variants) for a couple years now while ENA tops out at 20G. They are basically asleep at the wheel because their architectures are predicated on poor assumptions, shirking understanding of computer architecture for 10s of thousands of SREs and "full stack developers". Dovetailing a bit, back in the commercial UNIX and mainframe markets it is pretty common to have 80%-90% percent system utilization. In the Linux world, it's usually single digits. For some reasons (I guess it's more inviting to think holistically due to the base OS model), we are getting those 90% figures in the BSD community. See drewg's comment, WhatsApp, Isilon, LLNW: I led the creation of an OS team, to look from first principles, where we were spending CPU/bus/IO bandwidth, and focusing on north-south delivery instead of horizontal scale. A team of 5, we are able to deliver significant shareholder value http://investors.limelight.com/file/Index?KeyFile=38751761 http://investors.limelight.com/file/Index?KeyFile=38751761.

en4bz 10y ago
Yeah I suppose what I really want is physical procurement of hardware with the ease of cloud.
- kev009 10y ago
  I haven't used them, but it looks compelling: https://www.packet.net/ https://www.packet.net/
bogomipz 10y ago
>"One other point, these cloud companies like Amazon and Google do a great deal of self congratulations for some pretty embarrassing architectures. Necessitating million server datacenters is as WTF to me as being proud of millions of lines of code when someone else is doing it with magnitudes less" Can you explain what these "embarrassing architectures"? Also two of the largest tech companies on the planet using millions of servers is a "WTF" to you? Care to explain? Also I don't think either Amazon or Google has ever released actual numbers for server counts. Please provide a citation for this. >"as being proud of millions of lines of code when someone else is doing it with magnitudes less" This is also a pretty vague statement. Lines of code for what? And who is doing that same "what" with less code? >"They are basically asleep at the wheel because their architectures are predicated on poor assumptions, shirking understanding of computer architecture for 10s of thousands of SREs and "full stack developers". Do you really believe that Google and Amazon don't understand computer architecture? Please provide citations for how you arrived at the at the number of SREs and "Full Stack Developers" at Google and Amazon. I don't think Google/Amazon even have "Full Stack Developer" as a job title. >"I led the creation of an OS team, to look from first principles, where we were spending CPU/bus/IO bandwidth, and focusing on north-south delivery instead of horizontal scale" You did this at Limelight Networks then I presume according to the link you provided? You realize that a CDN is predominantly North-South traffic right? CDNs are a very different business than being general purpose cloud providers which in addition to north-south traffic have substantial east-west traffic. You fault Google and Amazon for "congratulating" themselves yet the link you provide presumably to substantiate your own grand achievements is fluffy press release. A press release with zero detail around the claims being made and no link to a white paper or any technical specifics are given. Limelight is not exactly what I would call a market leader or a name associated with being a great technical innovator. Limelight lost 73 million dollars last years and has a 270 million market cap. They were also sued by CDN provider Akami and agreed to pay Akami licensing fees as part of the settlement for that infringement.[1] >"A team of 5, we are able to deliver significant shareholder value" Your company's stock trades at $2.56 a share while Amazon and Alphabets trade at well over $800 a share. I will gladly take the share holder value that Google's and Amazon's "10s of thousands of SREs and "full stack developers" provide over your team of 5. [1] http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2017/02/08/limelight-networks-ends-year-with-73-9m-loss.html http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2017/02/08/limelight...
- kev009 10y ago
  Think about what this _means_, and let's be really conservative and assume a huge splay of 10 year old to current hw: 8 million cores, 10 million storage devices (100-1000x IOPS, 1-10x TB capacity), 8x recent global IP transit rate with just 2Gbit laggs. By the way, hyperscalers have many of these. That's enough compute to boil an ocean, at one datacenter. Now back at ya, go figure out the useful work per machine. Google does pretty good in ecosystem investment. They do have people that know how computers work, and more importantly decision makers that let them pay huge dividends (i.e. containers vs VMs, CPU cache partitioning, TCP performance). I've seen little evidence of the same at Amazon. Sorry, you can provide statistics that the majority of the 25k committers at one of these companies (ACM Queue monorepo article) are not toiling in a morass of overgrowth. People have told me things, YMMV, draw your own research and conclusions as I have mine. That lawsuit was during a critical time. I can't comment any more there. On GOOG, if you have enough money to make it worthwhile and want to ride a fractional increase above market growth rate, it's a safe stock, but it's not likely to to multiply over the next few years.
  - bogomipz 10y ago
    Again you have provided no citations for any of your figures or any of the hardware configurations you are stating, your just making things up it seems. This is gibberish.
    - kev009 10y ago
      Heh, anyone in the game knows the orders off hand. Try 10 seconds of google https://www.nextplatform.com/2015/04/09/how-in-hell-will-any-cloud-ever-catch-aws/ https://www.nextplatform.com/2015/04/09/how-in-hell-will-any...

by kev009 10y ago

en4bz 10y ago

Yeah I suppose what I really want is physical procurement of hardware with the ease of cloud.

kev009 10y ago
I haven't used them, but it looks compelling: https://www.packet.net/ https://www.packet.net/

bogomipz 10y ago

>"One other point, these cloud companies like Amazon and Google do a great deal of self congratulations for some pretty embarrassing architectures. Necessitating million server datacenters is as WTF to me as being proud of millions of lines of code when someone else is doing it with magnitudes less" Can you explain what these "embarrassing architectures"? Also two of the largest tech companies on the planet using millions of servers is a "WTF" to you? Care to explain? Also I don't think either Amazon or Google has ever released actual numbers for server counts. Please provide a citation for this. >"as being proud of millions of lines of code when someone else is doing it with magnitudes less" This is also a pretty vague statement. Lines of code for what? And who is doing that same "what" with less code? >"They are basically asleep at the wheel because their architectures are predicated on poor assumptions, shirking understanding of computer architecture for 10s of thousands of SREs and "full stack developers". Do you really believe that Google and Amazon don't understand computer architecture? Please provide citations for how you arrived at the at the number of SREs and "Full Stack Developers" at Google and Amazon. I don't think Google/Amazon even have "Full Stack Developer" as a job title. >"I led the creation of an OS team, to look from first principles, where we were spending CPU/bus/IO bandwidth, and focusing on north-south delivery instead of horizontal scale" You did this at Limelight Networks then I presume according to the link you provided? You realize that a CDN is predominantly North-South traffic right? CDNs are a very different business than being general purpose cloud providers which in addition to north-south traffic have substantial east-west traffic. You fault Google and Amazon for "congratulating" themselves yet the link you provide presumably to substantiate your own grand achievements is fluffy press release. A press release with zero detail around the claims being made and no link to a white paper or any technical specifics are given. Limelight is not exactly what I would call a market leader or a name associated with being a great technical innovator. Limelight lost 73 million dollars last years and has a 270 million market cap. They were also sued by CDN provider Akami and agreed to pay Akami licensing fees as part of the settlement for that infringement.[1] >"A team of 5, we are able to deliver significant shareholder value" Your company's stock trades at $2.56 a share while Amazon and Alphabets trade at well over $800 a share. I will gladly take the share holder value that Google's and Amazon's "10s of thousands of SREs and "full stack developers" provide over your team of 5. [1] http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2017/02/08/limelight-networks-ends-year-with-73-9m-loss.html http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2017/02/08/limelight...

kev009 10y ago
Think about what this _means_, and let's be really conservative and assume a huge splay of 10 year old to current hw: 8 million cores, 10 million storage devices (100-1000x IOPS, 1-10x TB capacity), 8x recent global IP transit rate with just 2Gbit laggs. By the way, hyperscalers have many of these. That's enough compute to boil an ocean, at one datacenter. Now back at ya, go figure out the useful work per machine. Google does pretty good in ecosystem investment. They do have people that know how computers work, and more importantly decision makers that let them pay huge dividends (i.e. containers vs VMs, CPU cache partitioning, TCP performance). I've seen little evidence of the same at Amazon. Sorry, you can provide statistics that the majority of the 25k committers at one of these companies (ACM Queue monorepo article) are not toiling in a morass of overgrowth. People have told me things, YMMV, draw your own research and conclusions as I have mine. That lawsuit was during a critical time. I can't comment any more there. On GOOG, if you have enough money to make it worthwhile and want to ride a fractional increase above market growth rate, it's a safe stock, but it's not likely to to multiply over the next few years.
- bogomipz 10y ago
  Again you have provided no citations for any of your figures or any of the hardware configurations you are stating, your just making things up it seems. This is gibberish.
  - kev009 10y ago
    Heh, anyone in the game knows the orders off hand. Try 10 seconds of google https://www.nextplatform.com/2015/04/09/how-in-hell-will-any-cloud-ever-catch-aws/ https://www.nextplatform.com/2015/04/09/how-in-hell-will-any...