4 ms·

I think claiming that the LDS church hasn't been hostile toward LGBT people is pretty disingenuous, much like claiming they haven't been historically explicitly

by suresk 10y ago

I think claiming that the LDS church hasn't been hostile toward LGBT people is pretty disingenuous, much like claiming they haven't been historically explicitly racist towards black people. One doesn't have to much more than a google search for "Lds gay quotes" to find a long history of negative teachings from church leaders about gay people. The church recently expended a ton of time and effort to attempt to block gay people from being able to be married. The church had policies about gay behavior (even non-sexual in nature) at its universities until recently. It has had a role in forced gay conversion therapy, which is a horrendous practice. Even setting aside official teachings, church members in Utah have been incredibly hostile towards gays in the past. I grew up Mormon, and I heard all the things people said about gay people. I worked at the LDS church, where I overheard 2 other employees bemoaning the fact that it was 'probably illegal' to bring a machine gun to a planned gay rally in SLC and mow down all the gays there. Others who were there just chuckled and mumbled about political correctness. I wish I could say that attitudes like that were the exception, rather than the rule. I appreciate that the church leaders are trying to take a much more moderate approach, and I know there are a lot of church members who work hard to treat LGBT people appropriately and work to make it more accepted by others, and it is really encouraging to see some of the changes over the past 5 years. I do think, however, it is wrong to pretend that the LDS church hasn't contributed to the problem, and I think even the current teaching of "hey, so god decided to tell us that you actually can't change your sexuality, so it is cool if you are gay, but we still think it is kind of icky, so don't do gay stuff" is really hard for someone in that situation. Can you put yourself in their shoes for a minute, and think about how you'd feel in that situation?

cookiecaper 10y ago
The issue is that "hostility toward" is interpreted differently. I want to be clear that I am not pretending, and do not intend to pretend, that the Church condones homosexual behavior. Nor do I intend to pretend that the Church ever will condone homosexual behavior, because I think they're doctrinally forbidden from doing so (whereas there was no explicit doctrinal barrier re: priesthood eligibility or plural marriage). The difference is that Mormons do not consider themselves more hostile toward homosexual behavior than they consider themselves hostile toward other types of sinful behavior, and as detailed above, the leadership goes to lengths to try to ensure that everyone understands that those who practice homosexuality should be treated with the same civility and respect to which anyone else is entitled. Pro-gay activists, however, interpret "hostility" to mean any disagreement whatsoever with their activities and demands, up to and including disagreement with the demand that these activities enjoy state sponsorship via marital benefits. We have to accept that there is a basic moral disagreement here. No one is trying to hide that or say it doesn't exist, or imply that it is going to disappear. The difference is that Mormons are trying to maintain friendly and civil relations despite that, and trying to encourage people to be sympathetic to the homosexual POV without abandoning their moral standards. Meanwhile, the activists on the other side do everything in their power to lay the blame for suicide, death, and many other massive social malignancies on religion, history, culture, politics, and anything else that disagrees with them.

by suresk 10y ago

cookiecaper 10y ago

The issue is that "hostility toward" is interpreted differently. I want to be clear that I am not pretending, and do not intend to pretend, that the Church condones homosexual behavior. Nor do I intend to pretend that the Church ever will condone homosexual behavior, because I think they're doctrinally forbidden from doing so (whereas there was no explicit doctrinal barrier re: priesthood eligibility or plural marriage). The difference is that Mormons do not consider themselves more hostile toward homosexual behavior than they consider themselves hostile toward other types of sinful behavior, and as detailed above, the leadership goes to lengths to try to ensure that everyone understands that those who practice homosexuality should be treated with the same civility and respect to which anyone else is entitled. Pro-gay activists, however, interpret "hostility" to mean any disagreement whatsoever with their activities and demands, up to and including disagreement with the demand that these activities enjoy state sponsorship via marital benefits. We have to accept that there is a basic moral disagreement here. No one is trying to hide that or say it doesn't exist, or imply that it is going to disappear. The difference is that Mormons are trying to maintain friendly and civil relations despite that, and trying to encourage people to be sympathetic to the homosexual POV without abandoning their moral standards. Meanwhile, the activists on the other side do everything in their power to lay the blame for suicide, death, and many other massive social malignancies on religion, history, culture, politics, and anything else that disagrees with them.