3 ms·

Go ahead and visit Salt Lake (I am comparing to Colorado). I think they either don't have the money or out of principle do not maintain their roads. That's the

by diebir 10y ago

Go ahead and visit Salt Lake (I am comparing to Colorado). I think they either don't have the money or out of principle do not maintain their roads. That's the economy. The geography is not favorable either. Salt Lake sits in a bowl surrounded by dark hills with little vegetation. The hills are all dug by mines and open pits. They have the whole range ("on the other side") that is essentially one big mine. The winter is cold and the temperature inversion traps cold air in the bowl and the air quality becomes worst in the nation (you can't even run outside). There's no chinook winds in winter, so it's colder than the other side of the Rockies. The political landscape is very bleak. This is the most conservative state in the nation. Utah hates their environment so much, that they are working on shrinking or destroying several National Monuments (Escalante and Bears Ears). Their congressmen are loathsome Trump toads like Chaffetz (who investigated Park Service for making a folder with maps for a new monument, but refused to investigate anything about Trump). The anti-environment stance in Utah has become so bad, that the Outdoor Retailer Show (the prime event for multi-billion outdoor industry) has left Salt Lake. Patagonia, Arcteryx and many others initiated it. The only redeeming quality in Utah is the ski areas nearby. 15 miles vs 40-60-70 in Colorado. And the snow is better. BTW, the Salt Lake is empty in winter, in prime ski season. Never seen motels and hotels so empty and so cheap. Good for skiing, not good for the economy. Mormons are nice people for the most part.

saryant 10y ago
> The political landscape is very bleak. This is the most conservative state in the nation. Utah hates their environment so much, that they are working on shrinking or destroying several National Monuments (Escalante and Bears Ears). Their congressmen are loathsome Trump toads like Chaffetz (who investigated Park Service for making a folder with maps for a new monument, but refused to investigate anything about Trump). Utah is also home to some of Congress' most anti-Trump members. Sen. Mike Lee, Rep. Mia Love, among others. At the 2016 GOP convention, the Utah delegation was one of the groups trying to overthrow Trump's nomination (along with Colorado's delegation). They failed, of course, but Sen. Lee was instrumental in getting those efforts off the ground. Almost as if a broad generalization isn't an accurate picture...
- diebir 10y ago
  ... still as anti-environment, pro fossil fuels, etc. Others?
- losvedir 10y ago
  It's interesting the situation was so bad McMullen ran and had a shot at winning the state, IIRC.
  - thomastjeffery 10y ago
    I count any third party candidate getting 20% of the vote as a good situation.
Banthum 10y ago
Comments on the climate and economy are reasonable here - But your moral judgmentalism reminds me of a Bible-thumping racist talking about how horrible SF is because of all the godlessness and miscegenation. Yes, people in Utah have different political values. Judge the results of those values, don't just say it's a horrible place because so many people have evil in their minds.
- 467568985476 10y ago
  Isn't that exactly what he's saying? That the Republicans they overwhelmingly elect generally vote for policies that damage the environment?
cookiecaper 10y ago
Utah differs from other Republican states in a number of significant ways. They are generally pro-immigrant, so much that some hardline Republicans have started referring to SLC as a "sanctuary city". With so many Mormons who've gotten to know the poor inhabitants in foreign countries while they served missions, there is a great deal of sympathy for migrants and less regard for the technicalities of their status. They care a lot about civility and decorum; Utah did go Trump, but it was the reddest state in presidential elections since Bush 1, and it was only light red in 2016. Some people were calling it a toss-up state after McMullin entered the race, and he did end up taking double-digit percentages, far better than any other third-party candidate. Like other state's reps, Utah's delegation has struggled in figuring out how to approach Trump. It's a tough situation for everyone. Chaffetz has flipped on Trump a number of times, endorsing, un-endorsing, and then re-endorsing. As another commenter points out, other Utahns in Congress are firmly anti-Trump. The state has a pragmatic streak and has installed a state-funded light rail to reduce pollution. They're building new homeless shelters. Despite the harsh climate, SLC is a common destination for panhandlers because it's easy to get help there. Yes, it's true that Utah is conservative, but it doesn't have quite the same edge you find in other largely-conservative places, like the South. The inversion sucks and is definitely one of the worst things about Utah (another reason not to be there in winter), but it's usually only a problem for a few weeks (usually in January). I'm not sure how you propose resolving that. The state can't just snap its fingers and force everyone to drive zero-emissions cars, and they've already installed a light rail that is quite accessible throughout the metro. SLC and other cities in the area have strict anti-idling ordinances. Opposing Obama's recent annexations of land (most prominently, Bear's Ears) into the National Parks system should not automatically be interpreted as being anti-public-land or anti-environment.

by diebir 10y ago

saryant 10y ago

> The political landscape is very bleak. This is the most conservative state in the nation. Utah hates their environment so much, that they are working on shrinking or destroying several National Monuments (Escalante and Bears Ears). Their congressmen are loathsome Trump toads like Chaffetz (who investigated Park Service for making a folder with maps for a new monument, but refused to investigate anything about Trump). Utah is also home to some of Congress' most anti-Trump members. Sen. Mike Lee, Rep. Mia Love, among others. At the 2016 GOP convention, the Utah delegation was one of the groups trying to overthrow Trump's nomination (along with Colorado's delegation). They failed, of course, but Sen. Lee was instrumental in getting those efforts off the ground. Almost as if a broad generalization isn't an accurate picture...

diebir 10y ago
... still as anti-environment, pro fossil fuels, etc. Others?
losvedir 10y ago
It's interesting the situation was so bad McMullen ran and had a shot at winning the state, IIRC.
- thomastjeffery 10y ago
  I count any third party candidate getting 20% of the vote as a good situation.

Banthum 10y ago

Comments on the climate and economy are reasonable here - But your moral judgmentalism reminds me of a Bible-thumping racist talking about how horrible SF is because of all the godlessness and miscegenation. Yes, people in Utah have different political values. Judge the results of those values, don't just say it's a horrible place because so many people have evil in their minds.

467568985476 10y ago
Isn't that exactly what he's saying? That the Republicans they overwhelmingly elect generally vote for policies that damage the environment?

cookiecaper 10y ago

Utah differs from other Republican states in a number of significant ways. They are generally pro-immigrant, so much that some hardline Republicans have started referring to SLC as a "sanctuary city". With so many Mormons who've gotten to know the poor inhabitants in foreign countries while they served missions, there is a great deal of sympathy for migrants and less regard for the technicalities of their status. They care a lot about civility and decorum; Utah did go Trump, but it was the reddest state in presidential elections since Bush 1, and it was only light red in 2016. Some people were calling it a toss-up state after McMullin entered the race, and he did end up taking double-digit percentages, far better than any other third-party candidate. Like other state's reps, Utah's delegation has struggled in figuring out how to approach Trump. It's a tough situation for everyone. Chaffetz has flipped on Trump a number of times, endorsing, un-endorsing, and then re-endorsing. As another commenter points out, other Utahns in Congress are firmly anti-Trump. The state has a pragmatic streak and has installed a state-funded light rail to reduce pollution. They're building new homeless shelters. Despite the harsh climate, SLC is a common destination for panhandlers because it's easy to get help there. Yes, it's true that Utah is conservative, but it doesn't have quite the same edge you find in other largely-conservative places, like the South. The inversion sucks and is definitely one of the worst things about Utah (another reason not to be there in winter), but it's usually only a problem for a few weeks (usually in January). I'm not sure how you propose resolving that. The state can't just snap its fingers and force everyone to drive zero-emissions cars, and they've already installed a light rail that is quite accessible throughout the metro. SLC and other cities in the area have strict anti-idling ordinances. Opposing Obama's recent annexations of land (most prominently, Bear's Ears) into the National Parks system should not automatically be interpreted as being anti-public-land or anti-environment.