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In other words, the left and the right are both wrong. The left is wrong because it focuses too much on money and entitlements rather than real help. It also u

In other words, the left and the right are both wrong. The left is wrong because it focuses too much on money and entitlements rather than real help. It also uses big government only, which crowds out local solutions, churches, and NGOs. Beyond that, many on the left are actively hostile towards religion. The right is wrong because they scale back government without doing the hard work to build alternative solutions, and leave people stranded. (Obviously these are caricatures and not to be taken personally.) Sounds like the people in Utah have somethibg figured out.

lern_too_spel 10y ago
You can think of the Mormon Church as a second government in Utah that levies a 10% gross income tax on nearly everyone in the state and spends a portion on welfare programs.
- TulliusCicero 10y ago
  While a majority of Utah is technically Mormon, only like half of those are active in the church. So in practice, you're probably looking at like 30% of households paying tithing.
- tomcam 10y ago
  No. You don't get thrown into jail if you don't tithe.
- jeffdavis 10y ago
  A church is not a government. Governments have special powers that churches do not. Because it has those powers, government has an incredible burden to be fair. That doesn't sound so bad, but really limits how effective it can be at many things.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > A church is not a government. A church can be nothing like a government, very much like a government, a de facto government, or a de jure government. In practice, relevant to the specific situation at hand, a religion which is both dominant in a region and possessed of a strong centralizee heirarchy often acts a lot like a government, though it's direct sanctions are generally social (though potentially very powerful in effect, including economically) and often also has substantial influence with the formal government.

lern_too_spel 10y ago

You can think of the Mormon Church as a second government in Utah that levies a 10% gross income tax on nearly everyone in the state and spends a portion on welfare programs.

TulliusCicero 10y ago
While a majority of Utah is technically Mormon, only like half of those are active in the church. So in practice, you're probably looking at like 30% of households paying tithing.
tomcam 10y ago
No. You don't get thrown into jail if you don't tithe.
jeffdavis 10y ago
A church is not a government. Governments have special powers that churches do not. Because it has those powers, government has an incredible burden to be fair. That doesn't sound so bad, but really limits how effective it can be at many things.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > A church is not a government. A church can be nothing like a government, very much like a government, a de facto government, or a de jure government. In practice, relevant to the specific situation at hand, a religion which is both dominant in a region and possessed of a strong centralizee heirarchy often acts a lot like a government, though it's direct sanctions are generally social (though potentially very powerful in effect, including economically) and often also has substantial influence with the formal government.