4 ms·

Indeed, lifestyle (including diet) is the biggest problem. But when you then see what the problems in the diet is, the biggest one in for example America is dai

by fredsir 10y ago

Indeed, lifestyle (including diet) is the biggest problem. But when you then see what the problems in the diet is, the biggest one in for example America is dairy and then meat and oil. Again, you can be healthier than others eating those things, but if you were in that case, not eating it would make you much healthier than your previous self. And not forgetting that as little as the amount of dairy in three glasses of milk a day increases you chance notably of getting prostate cancer, colon cancer, cardiovascular disease and heart disease. A big portion of yoghurt often have more than that. Exercising doesn't decrease those chances by much if at all.

jhasse 10y ago
If that would really be the case, we should see huge differences for people with lactose intolerance, shouldn't we?
- fredsir 10y ago
  I don't believe so. The problem isn't dairy per se, it's what's in dairy. If you just replace the saturated fat you get from dairy with saturated sat from meat or coconut milk or whatever, the result is the same.
  - jhasse 10y ago
    Then please stop saying dairy is the problem but saturated fats.
    - fredsir 10y ago
      That's like saying I shouldn't say smoking is bad because it's not the action of smoking that is bad for you, it's what is in the smoke that is. Dairy is bad because dairy is a package consisting of too much saturated fat, and cholesterol and hormones which you don't need to consume at all. It's also increasingly consisting of antibiotics and other drugs which are also bad for you.
      - jhasse 10y ago
        Not all dairy products contain fat. And antibiotics aren't a problem of dairy alone, but of industrial farming in general. You make it sound like eating dairy is always unhealthy, similar to smoking. But I doubt that's the case and I don't know of any evidence supporting that.
        fredsir 10y ago
        Alright, some dairy products have less fat because producers spend money on making the product less unhealthy. But it still has cholesterol, and hormones and other bad stuff, and what are the benefits to consuming dairy over all the alternatives there is that has none of the bad stuff? There is none. Why take something like dairy and spend money and energy on producing those and making them more healthy than they really are, when you can get all the other benefits from other foods that also has even more benefits and none of the bad stuff, and also contributes to climate change much less, and doesn't need to include the exploitation, the suffering, and the murder of animals, when we don't need dairy and actually have to go out of our way to make it so it doesn't kill those consuming it? And yes, antibiotics and other drugs is also a problem for meat products. I'm also against producing and consuming those, if you were wondering.
        jhasse 10y ago
        > But it still has cholesterol, and hormones and other bad stuff, and what are the benefits to consuming dairy over all the alternatives there is that has none of the bad stuff? As you said yourself: Not all alternatives are better. Some of them are even worse. You'll have to take a closer look to what's inside, that's why I don't like the generalization "Dairy is bad!".
        fredsir 10y ago
        That's not what I said. All the alternatives I'm advocating (plants) are better.
bigtimeidiot 10y ago
Three glasses of milk a day us a little???
- fredsir 10y ago
  It is the amount of the saturated fat, hormones and cholesterol (and antibiotics and so on) in three glasses that is the important thing. Many people drink at least one glass of milk and put at least one glass on their cereal too. And then they eat cheese on a lot of their food, which is concentrated and contains a lot more of everything than milk does, so many people consumes a lot more than what is in three glasses of milk every single day.
kayoone 10y ago
I don't know, i saw other studies that suggest whole-milk actually has benefits in regards to cardiovascular disease and heart disease. There is so much conflicting information out there, it's really hard to take anything too serious if you are not a scientist yourself who has the time and knowledge to go through all of that.
- fredsir 10y ago
  There is really not conflicting data out there if you go directly to the research instead of people who cites them, and when you check the research out, be wary of the research funded by the dairy (and meat and egg and sugar and so on) industry, and be wary of people funded by the industry too. You don't want to get advice on how healthy milk is from someone who's salary is paid by selling you milk. All the claims that dairy (milk) is healthy that I'm aware of and that is still well regarded (peer reviewed and hasn't later been debunked), is research that says stuff like "you need this much protein, you need this much calcium, you need this much that and that", and then they conclude with stuff like "and if consume this much dairy, you get all those things", but that is focusing on the good stuff in a vacuum and completely neglecting all the bad stuff that is in dairy, and that you already get all the good stuff if you simply eat any proper diet, but some diets, like a plant-based one, avoids the bad stuff.
  - pm90 10y ago
    OK I'm curious: what is the bad stuff in Milk, really? Could you please cite some of the research you talk about so I can look it up? Honest question.
    - fredsir 10y ago
      Hormones that give man-boobs, infertility and all kinds of crazy shit. Here is a couple of studies, but there is lots: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524299/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524299/, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11392381 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11392381, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12477510 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12477510, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24636397 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24636397 Saturated fat, which is the reason people gets type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease and heart disease. I don't believe I need to link you any sources for that, since it's common knowledge and agreed about. In dairy, the amount of saturated fat is really high. It's why oil (when taken out of it's natural package like olive oil is taken out of it's natural package: the olive) is also bad for you. It's 100% saturated fat instead of in the natural package where for every gram of oil you were also getting some fibers, some carbs and so on. Cholesterol. Same with saturated fat, although it's less bad. But the thing is that humans need to consume no cholesterol what so ever, so for every mg of cholesterol you consume, you simply add to your overall amount of ldl (also called bad) cholesterol, which has the same effect as saturated fat. All the cholesterol we need (hdl cholesterol) is something we produce our self. As little as the amount of dairy in three glasses of milk a day (which many get by drinking one glass, putting some on their cereal and then eating a lot of cheese too) is also found to increase ones chances of prostate and colon cancer. And the thing about dairy is that it is a complete scam. We learn as children that we should consume milk to build strong bones and get protein, but it's just not true. If you eat enough (varied) food (as in a completely normal proper diet), you will never be deficient in neither calcium nor protein. And studies show that you can't just consume more calcium to get stronger bones, it doesn't work like that, so drinking more milk to get even stronger bones is also completely fallacy. The dairy industry want us to believe milk is the raw power of nature, but in fact the only milk humans should consume is the milk our mothers produce, and when we are done we that, we don't need to consume milk anymore, especially not bovine milk. Cows milk is liquid growth food for a calf, that's it. There is nothing good in milk that you can't get from a better source, but there is a whole lot of bad stuff. If you are interested, I suggest these two[1] sources[2]. Those sites are obviously biased towards plant-based diets, but with good reason and they cite all their facts to scientific sources that you can check out with a simple google search using the number of the research paper, so you can check what they are saying out for yourself. I've never found it to be wrong. If you are even more interested and like to watch documentaries, you should check out Cowspiracy[3] and What The Health[4]. They are great, and all facts used are available on their respective websites with links to the sources and explanations and so on. [1]: https://nutritionfacts.org/?fwp_search=dairy&fwp_content_type=video https://nutritionfacts.org/?fwp_search=dairy&fwp_content_typ... [2]: http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/health-concerns-about-dairy-products http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/health-concerns-ab... [3]: http://www.cowspiracy.com http://www.cowspiracy.com [4]: http://www.whatthehealthfilm.com http://www.whatthehealthfilm.com

by fredsir 10y ago

jhasse 10y ago

If that would really be the case, we should see huge differences for people with lactose intolerance, shouldn't we?

fredsir 10y ago
I don't believe so. The problem isn't dairy per se, it's what's in dairy. If you just replace the saturated fat you get from dairy with saturated sat from meat or coconut milk or whatever, the result is the same.
- jhasse 10y ago
  Then please stop saying dairy is the problem but saturated fats.
  - fredsir 10y ago
    That's like saying I shouldn't say smoking is bad because it's not the action of smoking that is bad for you, it's what is in the smoke that is. Dairy is bad because dairy is a package consisting of too much saturated fat, and cholesterol and hormones which you don't need to consume at all. It's also increasingly consisting of antibiotics and other drugs which are also bad for you.
    - jhasse 10y ago
      Not all dairy products contain fat. And antibiotics aren't a problem of dairy alone, but of industrial farming in general. You make it sound like eating dairy is always unhealthy, similar to smoking. But I doubt that's the case and I don't know of any evidence supporting that.
      - fredsir 10y ago
        Alright, some dairy products have less fat because producers spend money on making the product less unhealthy. But it still has cholesterol, and hormones and other bad stuff, and what are the benefits to consuming dairy over all the alternatives there is that has none of the bad stuff? There is none. Why take something like dairy and spend money and energy on producing those and making them more healthy than they really are, when you can get all the other benefits from other foods that also has even more benefits and none of the bad stuff, and also contributes to climate change much less, and doesn't need to include the exploitation, the suffering, and the murder of animals, when we don't need dairy and actually have to go out of our way to make it so it doesn't kill those consuming it? And yes, antibiotics and other drugs is also a problem for meat products. I'm also against producing and consuming those, if you were wondering.
        jhasse 10y ago
        > But it still has cholesterol, and hormones and other bad stuff, and what are the benefits to consuming dairy over all the alternatives there is that has none of the bad stuff? As you said yourself: Not all alternatives are better. Some of them are even worse. You'll have to take a closer look to what's inside, that's why I don't like the generalization "Dairy is bad!".
        fredsir 10y ago
        That's not what I said. All the alternatives I'm advocating (plants) are better.

bigtimeidiot 10y ago

Three glasses of milk a day us a little???

fredsir 10y ago
It is the amount of the saturated fat, hormones and cholesterol (and antibiotics and so on) in three glasses that is the important thing. Many people drink at least one glass of milk and put at least one glass on their cereal too. And then they eat cheese on a lot of their food, which is concentrated and contains a lot more of everything than milk does, so many people consumes a lot more than what is in three glasses of milk every single day.

kayoone 10y ago

I don't know, i saw other studies that suggest whole-milk actually has benefits in regards to cardiovascular disease and heart disease. There is so much conflicting information out there, it's really hard to take anything too serious if you are not a scientist yourself who has the time and knowledge to go through all of that.

fredsir 10y ago
There is really not conflicting data out there if you go directly to the research instead of people who cites them, and when you check the research out, be wary of the research funded by the dairy (and meat and egg and sugar and so on) industry, and be wary of people funded by the industry too. You don't want to get advice on how healthy milk is from someone who's salary is paid by selling you milk. All the claims that dairy (milk) is healthy that I'm aware of and that is still well regarded (peer reviewed and hasn't later been debunked), is research that says stuff like "you need this much protein, you need this much calcium, you need this much that and that", and then they conclude with stuff like "and if consume this much dairy, you get all those things", but that is focusing on the good stuff in a vacuum and completely neglecting all the bad stuff that is in dairy, and that you already get all the good stuff if you simply eat any proper diet, but some diets, like a plant-based one, avoids the bad stuff.
- pm90 10y ago
  OK I'm curious: what is the bad stuff in Milk, really? Could you please cite some of the research you talk about so I can look it up? Honest question.
  - fredsir 10y ago
    Hormones that give man-boobs, infertility and all kinds of crazy shit. Here is a couple of studies, but there is lots: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524299/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524299/, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11392381 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11392381, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12477510 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12477510, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24636397 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24636397 Saturated fat, which is the reason people gets type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease and heart disease. I don't believe I need to link you any sources for that, since it's common knowledge and agreed about. In dairy, the amount of saturated fat is really high. It's why oil (when taken out of it's natural package like olive oil is taken out of it's natural package: the olive) is also bad for you. It's 100% saturated fat instead of in the natural package where for every gram of oil you were also getting some fibers, some carbs and so on. Cholesterol. Same with saturated fat, although it's less bad. But the thing is that humans need to consume no cholesterol what so ever, so for every mg of cholesterol you consume, you simply add to your overall amount of ldl (also called bad) cholesterol, which has the same effect as saturated fat. All the cholesterol we need (hdl cholesterol) is something we produce our self. As little as the amount of dairy in three glasses of milk a day (which many get by drinking one glass, putting some on their cereal and then eating a lot of cheese too) is also found to increase ones chances of prostate and colon cancer. And the thing about dairy is that it is a complete scam. We learn as children that we should consume milk to build strong bones and get protein, but it's just not true. If you eat enough (varied) food (as in a completely normal proper diet), you will never be deficient in neither calcium nor protein. And studies show that you can't just consume more calcium to get stronger bones, it doesn't work like that, so drinking more milk to get even stronger bones is also completely fallacy. The dairy industry want us to believe milk is the raw power of nature, but in fact the only milk humans should consume is the milk our mothers produce, and when we are done we that, we don't need to consume milk anymore, especially not bovine milk. Cows milk is liquid growth food for a calf, that's it. There is nothing good in milk that you can't get from a better source, but there is a whole lot of bad stuff. If you are interested, I suggest these two[1] sources[2]. Those sites are obviously biased towards plant-based diets, but with good reason and they cite all their facts to scientific sources that you can check out with a simple google search using the number of the research paper, so you can check what they are saying out for yourself. I've never found it to be wrong. If you are even more interested and like to watch documentaries, you should check out Cowspiracy[3] and What The Health[4]. They are great, and all facts used are available on their respective websites with links to the sources and explanations and so on. [1]: https://nutritionfacts.org/?fwp_search=dairy&fwp_content_type=video https://nutritionfacts.org/?fwp_search=dairy&fwp_content_typ... [2]: http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/health-concerns-about-dairy-products http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/health-concerns-ab... [3]: http://www.cowspiracy.com http://www.cowspiracy.com [4]: http://www.whatthehealthfilm.com http://www.whatthehealthfilm.com