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> Again, I'm not defending nazis in particular In this thread? You actually kind of are... > Flip it over in your mind, these things are happening to people w

> Again, I'm not defending nazis in particular In this thread? You actually kind of are... > Flip it over in your mind, these things are happening to people who express views that you probably accept/defend where you are so how are we different? No, but that's in large part because I don't generally accept or defend views that pivot around the violent removal of entire peoples. I get what you're trying to say in this thread, but it just doesn't make sense. Violence is Bad. Violence in self-defense is Less Bad. Nazism is an inherently violent ideology, and opening your mouth to speak words is an action - not just belief. Advocating for murder and violence is not "just speech" - it's a speech act[1] which can and maybe should have repercussions. 1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_act

cyberpunk 10y ago
Well, we kind of got stuck on the nazi bit. I'm not defending them at all, and if I came across that way then I've clearly had a failure to communicate. Please believe me when I say that I absolutely do not defend, agree or otherwise support such people because I do not. Taking a few steps back, the thing I was trying to hit on was that we're approaching a lot of issues/disagreement today as if one side is somehow on the same level as those groups simply because they share a base idea. "Trump is the next hitler". "Remoaners should be hung for treason" etc. There is a difference to me between nationalists who have a political view I disagree with and groups of extremists who call for genocide. I think it's dangerous that we aren't just censoring the people who make those calls, but those who promote the political ideas which lay behind both groups. It's a slippery slope. Calling for violence against is incitement and largely illegal although I don't know the specifics. I'm fairly sure if I stood up in the middle of my city and called for a group to be killed then I would be stopped though and I think that;s fair. Calls like that are the point beyond the end of "my fist" going back to the quote. All I've been trying to say is, we increasingly brush off and dismiss people on one side or another of debate as being the extreme of either of those sides and this is to our detriment. We're either "lefty loony EU slaves" or "racist bigots" and it's a pattern I see growing. Everyone has a right to an opinion. Nazi groups want hyper-nationalistic government polcies? Then talk about it. They are calling for murder? No, that's not the same thing.

cyberpunk 10y ago

Well, we kind of got stuck on the nazi bit. I'm not defending them at all, and if I came across that way then I've clearly had a failure to communicate. Please believe me when I say that I absolutely do not defend, agree or otherwise support such people because I do not. Taking a few steps back, the thing I was trying to hit on was that we're approaching a lot of issues/disagreement today as if one side is somehow on the same level as those groups simply because they share a base idea. "Trump is the next hitler". "Remoaners should be hung for treason" etc. There is a difference to me between nationalists who have a political view I disagree with and groups of extremists who call for genocide. I think it's dangerous that we aren't just censoring the people who make those calls, but those who promote the political ideas which lay behind both groups. It's a slippery slope. Calling for violence against is incitement and largely illegal although I don't know the specifics. I'm fairly sure if I stood up in the middle of my city and called for a group to be killed then I would be stopped though and I think that;s fair. Calls like that are the point beyond the end of "my fist" going back to the quote. All I've been trying to say is, we increasingly brush off and dismiss people on one side or another of debate as being the extreme of either of those sides and this is to our detriment. We're either "lefty loony EU slaves" or "racist bigots" and it's a pattern I see growing. Everyone has a right to an opinion. Nazi groups want hyper-nationalistic government polcies? Then talk about it. They are calling for murder? No, that's not the same thing.