3 ms·

This sounds a lot like victim blaming to me.

im_down_w_otp 10y ago
Riding at night, hands removed from the handlebars, no helmet, with no safety lights or reflective gear, wearing all black, on busy street, where the only indication of there being a person present is the faint glow of their cell phone screen and the ember of a lit cigarette. Often extremely reactionary and aggressive when they have a close call. Even more so when a fellow cyclist points out how dangerous it is. The above is a common occurrence in inner-SE Portland after hours. Especially on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. It's fascinating from a particular perspective.
- quicklime 10y ago
  But you were specifically talking about people who assert their legal right. Riding at night without lights is illegal in Oregon. Perhaps those cyclists can be blamed, but innocent pedestrians who have the right of way shouldn't be.
  - im_down_w_otp 10y ago
    Okay. Pedestrians looking straight down at their phone, walking full stride at a street corner, making no attempt whatsoever to look for oncoming traffic and strutting out into said oncoming traffic without out so much as a stutter-step. The above is embarrassingly coming in downtown and NW Portland.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- tomjen3 10y ago
  As a driver, I can't see people at night if they don't have lights on, until I am so close that it might as well not matter. I don't like this, but people don't realize how difficult they are to see in the dark — this includes myself when I'm not in my car. That assumes we are talking about a city by the way, a city which has functional street lightning, outside a city I will be using the very powerful beam headlights setting I will actually be able to see you at the same time whether you have lighting on not and will adjust accordingly — assuming you're in front of me, because without lighting I will never see you if you're behind or to my side. Meaning, if you are bicycling straight ahead and I need to turn right, I will see you when I run you over. I don't ever want to be in a situation where I have killed somebody by accident. I will do what I can to avoid or minimize damage, but if you're not lit up there is basically nothing I can do. The best you can hope for, is that I'm quick enough on the brakes that you will only be maimed for life. Afterwards you can blame me or not, I don't really give a shit.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    In the centre of Copenhagen, around this time (1:30), almost all drivers will be driving at not much more than running pace. The tight intersections and narrow roads force the behaviour, and inebriated pedestrians and cyclists everywhere make it necessary. > I will do what I can to avoid or minimize damage, but if you're not lit up there is basically nothing I can do. You can always slow down, until you can stop within the distance you can see.
rabboRubble 10y ago
Yes and no. Defensive driving in Portland against pedestrians and bicyclists is required well above what I'd grown accustomed in other cities. Yes, they have a right. They pop out and around the cars in expected and very much unexpected ways. This reminds me of a sailing lesson. Smaller vessels have right of way. Sails have right of way over engine driven. A friend of a friend was sailing and came close to allowing his 30 foot sail boat to be run into by a mega ocean fairing cargo ship. He saw it coming at him, had plenty of time to drop sail, but refused to take action because "he had right of way" completely ignoring that the cargo ship needed a mile or more to meaningfully turn out of his path. The sailor was right. Right but stupid. Stupid might mean dead, and stupid people dying is evolution at work.
- skadamou 10y ago
  I believe that the larger boat, at least in the case of "mega ocean fairing cargo ship" has right of way over a smaller 30 foot sail boat. At least that's how we did it when I was learning to sail. https://americanboating.org/bigger_on_the_water.asp https://americanboating.org/bigger_on_the_water.asp
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - dhimes 10y ago
    Nope. Only if constrained by draft. We speak of a "law of tonnage" which is really to the OP's point: don't be stupid. You might be the stand-on vessel but you're going to die.
Finnucane 10y ago
Sometimes when a pedestrian gets hit by a car, it is actually the pedestrian's fault. If you are not paying attention to what is going on around you, why do you assume that everyone else is going to cover for you? They aren't paying attention either. I see people step out into traffic at random locations without looking practically every day.

Riding at night, hands removed from the handlebars, no helmet, with no safety lights or reflective gear, wearing all black, on busy street, where the only indication of there being a person present is the faint glow of their cell phone screen and the ember of a lit cigarette. Often extremely reactionary and aggressive when they have a close call. Even more so when a fellow cyclist points out how dangerous it is. The above is a common occurrence in inner-SE Portland after hours. Especially on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. It's fascinating from a particular perspective.

quicklime 10y ago
But you were specifically talking about people who assert their legal right. Riding at night without lights is illegal in Oregon. Perhaps those cyclists can be blamed, but innocent pedestrians who have the right of way shouldn't be.
- im_down_w_otp 10y ago
  Okay. Pedestrians looking straight down at their phone, walking full stride at a street corner, making no attempt whatsoever to look for oncoming traffic and strutting out into said oncoming traffic without out so much as a stutter-step. The above is embarrassingly coming in downtown and NW Portland.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
tomjen3 10y ago
As a driver, I can't see people at night if they don't have lights on, until I am so close that it might as well not matter. I don't like this, but people don't realize how difficult they are to see in the dark — this includes myself when I'm not in my car. That assumes we are talking about a city by the way, a city which has functional street lightning, outside a city I will be using the very powerful beam headlights setting I will actually be able to see you at the same time whether you have lighting on not and will adjust accordingly — assuming you're in front of me, because without lighting I will never see you if you're behind or to my side. Meaning, if you are bicycling straight ahead and I need to turn right, I will see you when I run you over. I don't ever want to be in a situation where I have killed somebody by accident. I will do what I can to avoid or minimize damage, but if you're not lit up there is basically nothing I can do. The best you can hope for, is that I'm quick enough on the brakes that you will only be maimed for life. Afterwards you can blame me or not, I don't really give a shit.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  In the centre of Copenhagen, around this time (1:30), almost all drivers will be driving at not much more than running pace. The tight intersections and narrow roads force the behaviour, and inebriated pedestrians and cyclists everywhere make it necessary. > I will do what I can to avoid or minimize damage, but if you're not lit up there is basically nothing I can do. You can always slow down, until you can stop within the distance you can see.

rabboRubble 10y ago

Yes and no. Defensive driving in Portland against pedestrians and bicyclists is required well above what I'd grown accustomed in other cities. Yes, they have a right. They pop out and around the cars in expected and very much unexpected ways. This reminds me of a sailing lesson. Smaller vessels have right of way. Sails have right of way over engine driven. A friend of a friend was sailing and came close to allowing his 30 foot sail boat to be run into by a mega ocean fairing cargo ship. He saw it coming at him, had plenty of time to drop sail, but refused to take action because "he had right of way" completely ignoring that the cargo ship needed a mile or more to meaningfully turn out of his path. The sailor was right. Right but stupid. Stupid might mean dead, and stupid people dying is evolution at work.

skadamou 10y ago
I believe that the larger boat, at least in the case of "mega ocean fairing cargo ship" has right of way over a smaller 30 foot sail boat. At least that's how we did it when I was learning to sail. https://americanboating.org/bigger_on_the_water.asp https://americanboating.org/bigger_on_the_water.asp
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- dhimes 10y ago
  Nope. Only if constrained by draft. We speak of a "law of tonnage" which is really to the OP's point: don't be stupid. You might be the stand-on vessel but you're going to die.

Finnucane 10y ago

Sometimes when a pedestrian gets hit by a car, it is actually the pedestrian's fault. If you are not paying attention to what is going on around you, why do you assume that everyone else is going to cover for you? They aren't paying attention either. I see people step out into traffic at random locations without looking practically every day.