3 ms·

I respect your opinion and the belief that library education continues. I think a far greater cause is the lack of critical thinking taught in schools, the lac

I respect your opinion and the belief that library education continues. I think a far greater cause is the lack of critical thinking taught in schools, the lack of engaged debate and encouraging people to think for themselves and gather their own information. We had to write persuastive papers, research topics from encyclopedias, etc. It seems kids don't do that in school these days. (get off my lawn)

FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
> the lack of critical thinking taught in schools, the lack of engaged debate and encouraging people to think for themselves and gather their own information I just said it was a symptom since the article was about libraries, not THE symptom or the only symptom :) Remember, this is a new problem. Growing up, I had channels 2, 4, 7, 50, and 62. If you didn't mind the static and repositioning the antenna, there were a few more channels :). National news was on for one hour a night, maybe more on Sundays and was presented by erudite news anchors in a time where good looks were not a factor in getting the job. If you wanted to comment on an issue, you had to write a letter by hand, giving you time to cool yourself down and not respond in a knee-jerk way. I somewhat agree, but information used to be curated by gatekeepers well versed in the subject matter, not released in a torrential digital firehose with little or no curation. Has the level of critical thinking really declined or was it always this way? People from my father's generation may have had less critical thinking skills as they were much more trusting of authority. Those educated under No Child Left Behind aren't really old enough to be in charge yet. Somewhat relevant story: I appreciated the education I received, but I remember when I questioned why fuck am I reciting the Pledge of Allegiance when the entirety of it is horseshit...especially the liberty and justice for all portion. So, instead of performing the pledge, I finished up some homework that was due in AP Calc. My math teacher was so incensed he threw me out of class and told me to report to the principal's office where I proceeded to say I didn't stand because I injured my foot so that I wasn't suspended.
lebanon_tn 10y ago
FWIW the patrons I mentioned seem to skew older. Often they are convinced that the mainstream media or local government body x is stifling coverage of some news story they want to know more about. These are generally along the lines of the "pizzagate" story. One woman recently was convinced the government was blocking the AM radio broadcast of some political commentator. I want to highlight that these are completely normal looking middle aged men and women that do not appear to be under the influence of drugs. These are not the (false) stereotypical backwoods conspiracy nuts. Again, this is suburban Los Angeles. I don't know what their educational levels are or where they attended school, but clearly (and stating the obvious) -- our educational system is failing to impart basic research and critical thinking skills to huge sections of our population.
- TheAdamAndChe 10y ago
  I'm willing to bet that many younger people are skeptical of mainstream media nowadays, too. The collusion between media and the DNC to suppress Sanders from being the democratic nominee made me bitter at least, and I'm willing to bet it's made a lot of other people bitter, too. Then with the blatant clickbait claims that Pewdiepie is racist, white people cause all of our problems, and "8 [whatever] you just CAN'T live without" posts, I don't see my trust in media ever returning.
  - FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
    I've thought about that recently. The right type of skepticism came out of the election. I'm grouping all sides/factions together and, I may be wrong, but I don't see it as an increase in critical thinking. I just see it as an outright dismissal of the credibility of any information coming from the nebulous establishment or mainstream, accompanied by an acceptance of any conspiracy theory that paints the mainstream in a negative light. It's skepticism that discriminates based upon the messenger, not critical analysis of the content of the message. I joke, but I also weep knowing that if there were an article that claimed that either candidate supported relaxing or increasing regulations on the chemical dihydrogen monoxide, a significant number of people would think it was a serious issue without actually researching it. Just my 2c regarding PewDiePie: He may be a youtube star, but he not a comedian and not humorous IMO. Don't make jokes about touchy subjects if you aren't exceptionally funny or have a very thorough and intimate understanding of the subject. There's a reason Louis C.K. can do skits on controversial subjects without being pilloried, he's not a crass amateur. If no one laughs, at best it comes off as insensitive. Also, his fan base is primarily 12-15 yr olds, not exactly old enough to understand the subtleties of satire. Kramer's racist rant post-Seinfeld at least was aimed at adults.

FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago

> the lack of critical thinking taught in schools, the lack of engaged debate and encouraging people to think for themselves and gather their own information I just said it was a symptom since the article was about libraries, not THE symptom or the only symptom :) Remember, this is a new problem. Growing up, I had channels 2, 4, 7, 50, and 62. If you didn't mind the static and repositioning the antenna, there were a few more channels :). National news was on for one hour a night, maybe more on Sundays and was presented by erudite news anchors in a time where good looks were not a factor in getting the job. If you wanted to comment on an issue, you had to write a letter by hand, giving you time to cool yourself down and not respond in a knee-jerk way. I somewhat agree, but information used to be curated by gatekeepers well versed in the subject matter, not released in a torrential digital firehose with little or no curation. Has the level of critical thinking really declined or was it always this way? People from my father's generation may have had less critical thinking skills as they were much more trusting of authority. Those educated under No Child Left Behind aren't really old enough to be in charge yet. Somewhat relevant story: I appreciated the education I received, but I remember when I questioned why fuck am I reciting the Pledge of Allegiance when the entirety of it is horseshit...especially the liberty and justice for all portion. So, instead of performing the pledge, I finished up some homework that was due in AP Calc. My math teacher was so incensed he threw me out of class and told me to report to the principal's office where I proceeded to say I didn't stand because I injured my foot so that I wasn't suspended.

lebanon_tn 10y ago

FWIW the patrons I mentioned seem to skew older. Often they are convinced that the mainstream media or local government body x is stifling coverage of some news story they want to know more about. These are generally along the lines of the "pizzagate" story. One woman recently was convinced the government was blocking the AM radio broadcast of some political commentator. I want to highlight that these are completely normal looking middle aged men and women that do not appear to be under the influence of drugs. These are not the (false) stereotypical backwoods conspiracy nuts. Again, this is suburban Los Angeles. I don't know what their educational levels are or where they attended school, but clearly (and stating the obvious) -- our educational system is failing to impart basic research and critical thinking skills to huge sections of our population.

TheAdamAndChe 10y ago
I'm willing to bet that many younger people are skeptical of mainstream media nowadays, too. The collusion between media and the DNC to suppress Sanders from being the democratic nominee made me bitter at least, and I'm willing to bet it's made a lot of other people bitter, too. Then with the blatant clickbait claims that Pewdiepie is racist, white people cause all of our problems, and "8 [whatever] you just CAN'T live without" posts, I don't see my trust in media ever returning.
- FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
  I've thought about that recently. The right type of skepticism came out of the election. I'm grouping all sides/factions together and, I may be wrong, but I don't see it as an increase in critical thinking. I just see it as an outright dismissal of the credibility of any information coming from the nebulous establishment or mainstream, accompanied by an acceptance of any conspiracy theory that paints the mainstream in a negative light. It's skepticism that discriminates based upon the messenger, not critical analysis of the content of the message. I joke, but I also weep knowing that if there were an article that claimed that either candidate supported relaxing or increasing regulations on the chemical dihydrogen monoxide, a significant number of people would think it was a serious issue without actually researching it. Just my 2c regarding PewDiePie: He may be a youtube star, but he not a comedian and not humorous IMO. Don't make jokes about touchy subjects if you aren't exceptionally funny or have a very thorough and intimate understanding of the subject. There's a reason Louis C.K. can do skits on controversial subjects without being pilloried, he's not a crass amateur. If no one laughs, at best it comes off as insensitive. Also, his fan base is primarily 12-15 yr olds, not exactly old enough to understand the subtleties of satire. Kramer's racist rant post-Seinfeld at least was aimed at adults.