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>Late Capitalism This is where I stopped listening.

erikpukinskis 10y ago
Some of us think Capitalism will not be the dominant organizing principle for resource management forever. Like many other -isms we expect it to have a beginning (growth) phase, a middle (status quo) phase, and an end (decline) phase. Some subset of those believe we are in the late stages of it already, thus discussion of "Late Capitalism". That doesn't necessarily mean total death—Monarchism and Totalitarianism still exist—it just means other organizing principles will be more dominant. Others (you, perhaps?) think that Capitalism is the final form of our resource management ecology. To them, it just represents acceptance of fundamental laws of resources: property, policing, valuation, and money are inevitable constructs in any sane, functioning society where resources move semi-freely. I respect people who believe the latter. But I am in the former category, and I (obviously) think that's a reasonable position as well. What about capitalism-as-a-phase is so absurd to you that its suggestion immediately and completely discredits the speaker?
- jjn2009 10y ago
  >Some of us think Capitalism will not be the dominant organizing principle for resource management forever. markets aren't going away, unless you threaten humans to stop such actions with violence.
  - TheCoelacanth 10y ago
    Markets aren't unique to capitalism. They have existed since the dawn of civilization.
  - erikpukinskis 10y ago
    "not the dominant organizing principle" is very different from "will go away".
    - jjn2009 10y ago
      I don't really understand how you can make the claim that people in the near future (relative to the time capitalism has been around) people are going to just give up en masse everything they own so some other entity can manage it "for their own good". This is why making claims that capitalism is winding down via terminology such as "late capitalism" is extremely hopeful at best. How do you define dominant organizing principle? If all profit was taxed >50% would you have won that battle?

Some of us think Capitalism will not be the dominant organizing principle for resource management forever. Like many other -isms we expect it to have a beginning (growth) phase, a middle (status quo) phase, and an end (decline) phase. Some subset of those believe we are in the late stages of it already, thus discussion of "Late Capitalism". That doesn't necessarily mean total death—Monarchism and Totalitarianism still exist—it just means other organizing principles will be more dominant. Others (you, perhaps?) think that Capitalism is the final form of our resource management ecology. To them, it just represents acceptance of fundamental laws of resources: property, policing, valuation, and money are inevitable constructs in any sane, functioning society where resources move semi-freely. I respect people who believe the latter. But I am in the former category, and I (obviously) think that's a reasonable position as well. What about capitalism-as-a-phase is so absurd to you that its suggestion immediately and completely discredits the speaker?

jjn2009 10y ago
>Some of us think Capitalism will not be the dominant organizing principle for resource management forever. markets aren't going away, unless you threaten humans to stop such actions with violence.
- TheCoelacanth 10y ago
  Markets aren't unique to capitalism. They have existed since the dawn of civilization.
- erikpukinskis 10y ago
  "not the dominant organizing principle" is very different from "will go away".
  - jjn2009 10y ago
    I don't really understand how you can make the claim that people in the near future (relative to the time capitalism has been around) people are going to just give up en masse everything they own so some other entity can manage it "for their own good". This is why making claims that capitalism is winding down via terminology such as "late capitalism" is extremely hopeful at best. How do you define dominant organizing principle? If all profit was taxed >50% would you have won that battle?