3 ms·

>like secret police stuff, control over national media, poisoning of political enemies, assassinations How about "secret police stuff" like the illegal abducti

>like secret police stuff, control over national media, poisoning of political enemies, assassinations How about "secret police stuff" like the illegal abductions of people to put them into torture "black sites" all over the world? [0] Massive control over global media trough lobbying and propaganda instruments? [1] A long history of successful, and not so successful assassination attempts aimed at the "ideological opposition" all over the world? [2] The point here not being that the "US is the worst", the point being that the US hardly has the "moral high ground" on these issues just because they use these methods mostly against external "enemies" and not their own population. Questionable methods are questionable because of their methodology, not because of their targets. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition [1]https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-op... [2]https://wikispooks.com/wiki/US/Foreign_Assassinations_since_1945 https://wikispooks.com/wiki/US/Foreign_Assassinations_since_...

ajross 10y ago
Sorry, what does any of that have to do with the seeming lack of objectivity in Wikileaks decisions as to what to seek and publish? You bury it in there ("The point here not being..."), but I think you agree with me. No?
azernik 10y ago
Compared to: 0. People straight up disappeared in Syria, people arrested and locked up for political reasons in Russia - DOMESTIC stuff. 1. (Leaving aside that sock-puppet commenters are not the same as "massive control over global media".) The use on a massive scale of paid trolls by Russia, and the outright censorship of mass media outlets in countries from Russia and China to US allies like Turkey and Saudi Arabia. 2. Assassinations of journalists in Russia, and of some particularly high-value opposition targets abroad.
- mhermher 10y ago
  Compared to having higher rate of incarceration, not only in per-capita terms, but also in absolute terms. Even with China's extra billion people and their repressive laws. The US is way ahead and it isn't even close.
- freeflight 10y ago
  How about you set the bar even lower and start comparing with North Korea? The US influence on global media extends far further than a mere sock-puppet program which btw predates the notorious Russian "troll factories" by a couple of years. Only very few people know what classified operations are running in addition to that sock-puppet operation, but you can be certain there are more operations like that. Like influencing foreign media trough NGO's [0] in addition to that US media are the dominant news outlets on a global scale. And again: If you want to complain about assassinations then the US is in no position to point fingers at anybody. Just because the US does conduct these kinds of operations on a global scale mostly targeting foreigners, while being rather successful in suppressing publicity about similar actions on a domestic scale, does not make these actions any "better" or "just". Even the US has no shortage of journalists dying in rather mysterious circumstances, Gary Webb comes to mind and if they don't die under weird circumstances they are straight up put on drone kill lists [1]. I realize this is a matter of "national pride" for many US Americans, to keep the facade of "We are the exceptional good guys, number one in everything!" intact, but as somebody who's seen "both sides" of this I consider that a rather absolute and dangerous view on reality. Note: Not a fan of using huffingtonpost as a source, but it's the only English-language source I found about this due to it being a rather German-centric issue. [0] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/till-bruckner/think-tanks-lobbying-medi_b_7179422.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/till-bruckner/think-tanks-lobb... [1] http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/i-am-on-the-us-kill-list-this-is-what-it-feels-like-to-be-hunted-by-drones-a6980141.html http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/i-am-on-the-us-kill-list...

ajross 10y ago

Sorry, what does any of that have to do with the seeming lack of objectivity in Wikileaks decisions as to what to seek and publish? You bury it in there ("The point here not being..."), but I think you agree with me. No?

azernik 10y ago

Compared to: 0. People straight up disappeared in Syria, people arrested and locked up for political reasons in Russia - DOMESTIC stuff. 1. (Leaving aside that sock-puppet commenters are not the same as "massive control over global media".) The use on a massive scale of paid trolls by Russia, and the outright censorship of mass media outlets in countries from Russia and China to US allies like Turkey and Saudi Arabia. 2. Assassinations of journalists in Russia, and of some particularly high-value opposition targets abroad.

mhermher 10y ago
Compared to having higher rate of incarceration, not only in per-capita terms, but also in absolute terms. Even with China's extra billion people and their repressive laws. The US is way ahead and it isn't even close.
freeflight 10y ago
How about you set the bar even lower and start comparing with North Korea? The US influence on global media extends far further than a mere sock-puppet program which btw predates the notorious Russian "troll factories" by a couple of years. Only very few people know what classified operations are running in addition to that sock-puppet operation, but you can be certain there are more operations like that. Like influencing foreign media trough NGO's [0] in addition to that US media are the dominant news outlets on a global scale. And again: If you want to complain about assassinations then the US is in no position to point fingers at anybody. Just because the US does conduct these kinds of operations on a global scale mostly targeting foreigners, while being rather successful in suppressing publicity about similar actions on a domestic scale, does not make these actions any "better" or "just". Even the US has no shortage of journalists dying in rather mysterious circumstances, Gary Webb comes to mind and if they don't die under weird circumstances they are straight up put on drone kill lists [1]. I realize this is a matter of "national pride" for many US Americans, to keep the facade of "We are the exceptional good guys, number one in everything!" intact, but as somebody who's seen "both sides" of this I consider that a rather absolute and dangerous view on reality. Note: Not a fan of using huffingtonpost as a source, but it's the only English-language source I found about this due to it being a rather German-centric issue. [0] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/till-bruckner/think-tanks-lobbying-medi_b_7179422.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/till-bruckner/think-tanks-lobb... [1] http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/i-am-on-the-us-kill-list-this-is-what-it-feels-like-to-be-hunted-by-drones-a6980141.html http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/i-am-on-the-us-kill-list...