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This broke down right away: "After the President died he somehow “persuaded” the Vice President not to take the oath of of ce. Did we then have a President or
by djrogers 10y ago
This broke down right away:
"After the President died he somehow “persuaded” the Vice President not to take the oath of of ce. Did we then have a President or not? A real “Constitutional Conundrum” the papers called it. Brutus created just enough ambiguity to convince everyone that as the senior military of cer, he could—and should— declare himself Commander- in-Chief of the United Armed Forces"
Taking these two items in reverse order - Article 2 of the constitution is clear - the President is the CIC - full stop, period, no alternatives.
As far as the VP not taking the oath, that would pretty clearly make him/her fall in to the 'Inability' side of the Resignation or Inability statement, triggering Presidential Succession Act [2], which opens with the following language:
"If, by reason of death, resignation, removal from office, inability, or failure to qualify, there is neither a President nor Vice President to discharge the powers and duties of the office of President"
Refusal to take the oath of office would fall under 'failure to qualify' and 'inability', as taking the oath is required by Article 2 (section 1, clause 8)[1] before executing the office of President.
There's more, such as the 25th amendment, but that doesn't contradict anything here...
All of that is completely setting aside the deeply ingrained establishment of civilian control of the military in all modern liberal democracies - as established largely by the US constitution.
[1] https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/articles/article-ii https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/arti...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Succession_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Succession_Act
- throwaway729 10y agoWell, yes. The entire point is: what happens when the population loses all faith in civilian control -- not just of the military, but of anything? From the article: "Here’s what I think happened: Americans became exasperated with democracy"
- mikeash 10y agoOne thing we're rapidly learning in recent weeks is that the Constitution and the laws don't matter unless there are people able and willing to enforce them. Nothing is automatic, and if nobody with power will stand up to Brutus, then it can work even if it's supposedly not allowed. I think that "deeply ingrained establishment of civilian control" you mention is the real problem with this scenario.
- killjoywashere 10y agoI'm honestly shocked a warrior monk like Mattis took the SECDEF job. I am sincerely concerned that upon meeting Trump, he decided to take the job simply to keep it away from real crony.
- mikeash 10y agoMy thoughts exactly. I'm further convinced that Trump picked him solely because of the "Mad Dog" nickname.
- amyjess 10y agoI'm almost wondering if we may ever end up in a situation where someone who is constitutionally unqualified to serve as President winds up becoming Vice President, so the Speaker of the House effectively becomes the President's successor. Maybe if there's some bizarre brokered convention where the delegates agree to put a certain person on the party ticket as President if they agree to effectively leave the role of the President's successor to Congress by naming an 18-year-old kid (need to be 35 to be President) as his running mate.
- InitialLastName 10y agoThe last sentence of the 12th Amendment to the US Constitution [0]: > But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States People further down the presidential line of succession can be ineligible to be president. Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao is ineligible to be president due to having been born in Taiwan. In the event that the succession should make it that far down the list, she will be skipped. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_Unite...