4 ms·

> It is a moderately better situation than living in a college dorm. That is not a good situation by any standard. Maybe that's okay when you're a broke 20 yo

> It is a moderately better situation than living in a college dorm. That is not a good situation by any standard. Maybe that's okay when you're a broke 20 yo student with no income.

stale2002 10y ago
Basically everyone I know in the bay area lives with a roommate, and these are well paid software engineers. Renting out the living room of your apartment is usually a pretty good deal, and is perfectly normal. Sure, if you start to talk about hacker house levels of bad, that sucks. But this is NOT that.
- kspaans 10y ago
  Is it legal though? Both according to your lease and according to occupancy laws? (Referring to over-occupancy by renting out living rooms and/or multiple people per room.)
  - stale2002 10y ago
    Yes it is legal. The apartment complex that I am living in allows 5 people to a 2 person bedroom, and I've seen a couple groups do that. Renting out the living room or even putting 2 people to a room is almost always legal. Over occupancy laws only come into play in completely ridiculous situations like 3 people to a room and up.
    - almost_usual 10y ago
      "Unapproved subtenant (approval can be either stated or implied) is the only person still remaining in the unit (subtenant holding over)" Here is a list of just causes for eviction in San Francisco. https://www.sftu.org/justcauses/ https://www.sftu.org/justcauses/
      - stale2002 10y ago
        They are not unapproved though. The way these things work is that the apartment complex puts you on the lease! That is by definition approved.
  - yonran 10y ago
    In San Francisco, the occupancy limits for existing buildings is contained in SF Housing Code §503[1]: bedroom must have 70 sq. ft. of superficial floor area for the first 2 people, plus 50 sq. ft. for each additional person. The subdivided apartments probably easily comply with these limits. [1]: http://library.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/California/sfbuilding/housingcode2016edition/chapter5spaceandoccupancystandards?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0$vid=amlegal:sanfrancisco_ca$anc=JD_H503 http://library.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/California/sfbuil...
- mwfunk 10y ago
  Anecdotal and all, but FWIW everyone I know in the Bay Area does not live with a roommate, and these are well-paid software engineers. When people first move here and/or are just getting started with their career, some of them went through periods of having roommates, but they all eventually either found a place they're happy with that is cheap enough where they don't have to have roommates, or after a couple years and a couple raises they don't need them in general. In fairness, I'm thinking of SV and surrounding areas though- not SF, which is a whole other level of housing pain. People I know who work in SV but were determined to live in SF at all costs were stuck with roommates until later in life, but as soon as they could afford to not have roommates, they got their own place. For people I know who are >= 30 and have gotten past the initial novelty of post-college life, roommates are always something you get because you have to, never because you want to.
- sidlls 10y ago
  It isn't "perfectly normal." It's very much not normal for adult professionals to cram 2 people to a bedroom or a "converted" living room into small (these aren't "spacious") apartments. That's not even normal for college students who live off campus. Maybe it is for 2 to a bedroom, but definitely not to have a converted living room.

> It is a moderately better situation than living in a college dorm. That is not a good situation by any standard. Maybe that's okay when you're a broke 20 yo student with no income.

stale2002 10y ago

Basically everyone I know in the bay area lives with a roommate, and these are well paid software engineers. Renting out the living room of your apartment is usually a pretty good deal, and is perfectly normal. Sure, if you start to talk about hacker house levels of bad, that sucks. But this is NOT that.

kspaans 10y ago
Is it legal though? Both according to your lease and according to occupancy laws? (Referring to over-occupancy by renting out living rooms and/or multiple people per room.)
- stale2002 10y ago
  Yes it is legal. The apartment complex that I am living in allows 5 people to a 2 person bedroom, and I've seen a couple groups do that. Renting out the living room or even putting 2 people to a room is almost always legal. Over occupancy laws only come into play in completely ridiculous situations like 3 people to a room and up.
  - almost_usual 10y ago
    "Unapproved subtenant (approval can be either stated or implied) is the only person still remaining in the unit (subtenant holding over)" Here is a list of just causes for eviction in San Francisco. https://www.sftu.org/justcauses/ https://www.sftu.org/justcauses/
    - stale2002 10y ago
      They are not unapproved though. The way these things work is that the apartment complex puts you on the lease! That is by definition approved.
- yonran 10y ago
  In San Francisco, the occupancy limits for existing buildings is contained in SF Housing Code §503[1]: bedroom must have 70 sq. ft. of superficial floor area for the first 2 people, plus 50 sq. ft. for each additional person. The subdivided apartments probably easily comply with these limits. [1]: http://library.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/California/sfbuilding/housingcode2016edition/chapter5spaceandoccupancystandards?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0$vid=amlegal:sanfrancisco_ca$anc=JD_H503 http://library.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/California/sfbuil...
mwfunk 10y ago
Anecdotal and all, but FWIW everyone I know in the Bay Area does not live with a roommate, and these are well-paid software engineers. When people first move here and/or are just getting started with their career, some of them went through periods of having roommates, but they all eventually either found a place they're happy with that is cheap enough where they don't have to have roommates, or after a couple years and a couple raises they don't need them in general. In fairness, I'm thinking of SV and surrounding areas though- not SF, which is a whole other level of housing pain. People I know who work in SV but were determined to live in SF at all costs were stuck with roommates until later in life, but as soon as they could afford to not have roommates, they got their own place. For people I know who are >= 30 and have gotten past the initial novelty of post-college life, roommates are always something you get because you have to, never because you want to.
sidlls 10y ago
It isn't "perfectly normal." It's very much not normal for adult professionals to cram 2 people to a bedroom or a "converted" living room into small (these aren't "spacious") apartments. That's not even normal for college students who live off campus. Maybe it is for 2 to a bedroom, but definitely not to have a converted living room.