4 ms·

I would add to that the generally venture-hostile environment (relatively small population, high overheads, few institutional VCs) has created a static economy

I would add to that the generally venture-hostile environment (relatively small population, high overheads, few institutional VCs) has created a static economy typified by the options available to young people even after tertiary education: work for a big established company to get by in a large city (though even with a professional partner you'll never afford a house in 30 years), go overseas, or go broke. (Full disclosure: I left 20 years ago)

spangry 10y ago
Yeah, it's a serious problem. If you left 20 years ago, I've got bad new for you: it's worse than you remember. Most of the economy now consists of ticket clippers and rent seekers. It's a shame we lack the structural support for new ventures in Australia, as Australians have historically had some good ideas. But when you look at stuff like this (http://i.imgur.com/g7a9QDL.png http://i.imgur.com/g7a9QDL.png), it makes you realise that there's no chance of generating a start-up culture in Australia (except maybe in the financial sector, especially if the business has something to do with property loans).
falsedan 10y ago
10 years here. It's nice to move to San Francisco and think, wow this is cheap as!
- researcher11 10y ago
  HA! I did the same thing.
brad0 10y ago
Hi mate, fellow Aussie here. I see you're currently living in China. I'm considering a move there in the next few years. Any chance I could ask you a couple of questions over email?
- contingencies 10y ago
  Sure, email in profile. Currently relocating to Shenzhen. Have previously lived in many places in Yunnan, Shanghai and Qingdao. Could maybe hook up some remote work - re: your experience in mobile banking.
nailer 10y ago
10 years here. I moved to London, where housing is pretty awful (but not quite as bad) but an attitude to tech that's comfortably between the cynicism of "tech is a scam used to separate idiots from their wallets" (Australia) and the wild enthusiasm of "Snapchat IPO" (US).
- talldan 10y ago
  Surprised that you think London housing is not as bad as Australia. Prices here are quite a bit higher in London, and from what I understand, London salaries are also often not as high. I've lived in London for 10 years, and my partner is Australian. We've considered moving to Australia recently, so the above is from my research.
  - lamynator 10y ago
    I moved to London from Sydney a year ago and I couldn't agree more. Unless you are prepared to live in a damp cupboard, prices are way higher and salaries are lower.
jacques_chester 10y ago
I think the lack of venture is more complex than that; a mix of culture and regulation. There are only 23 million odd Australians, but there is well north of $2 trillion AUD in our superannuation accounts. Assuming they applied 0.5% of that towards VC, you'd be looking at $10bn AUD of available capital. At least one order of magnitude more than is currently present. Also, last I checked, stock-based comp in Australia is tax-disadvantageous. I can't recall if it was FBT or something else.
- glenngillen 10y ago
  I'd say that from a pure opportunity cost perspective the performance of property & mining alone is justification for the lack of VC in Australia. If simple well understood businesses (dig up rocks or buy land and build) can return > 10% YoY, why would any intelligent investor poor money into an asset class that has underperformed that in the same period?
  - jacques_chester 10y ago
    Yet the VC lifecycle is very much like the mining lifecycle. Exploration, drilling, construction, exploitation. The early stages cost millions and often lead to failure, with the occasional profitable case and rare super-profitable discoveries. Scaling up costs major capital, after which, prices allowing, a mine can be a cash cow.
- daemin 10y ago
  I think the current government was looking into that at some point, but I don't know what happened with that. I remember when I worked at a startup the choice when I got stock options was - pay the tax up front based on the current strike price value - or pay a higher tax when you exercise them and make a profit. If you take the first choice then you'll need to do a lot of paper work to get that money back should the company fail.
cylinder 10y ago
Eh, you don't need massive VC to get quality resilient tech companies. You need massive VC for massive bubbles. Sydney has some good startups going now, I would say on a per capita basis Australia does well. It's not Australia's fault that companies become successful and then move to larger markets to be closer to customers and such. Things have been rapidly changing too with the young generation. Smart people are skipping the investment banks for startups because they see the opportunity.

spangry 10y ago

Yeah, it's a serious problem. If you left 20 years ago, I've got bad new for you: it's worse than you remember. Most of the economy now consists of ticket clippers and rent seekers. It's a shame we lack the structural support for new ventures in Australia, as Australians have historically had some good ideas. But when you look at stuff like this (http://i.imgur.com/g7a9QDL.png http://i.imgur.com/g7a9QDL.png), it makes you realise that there's no chance of generating a start-up culture in Australia (except maybe in the financial sector, especially if the business has something to do with property loans).

falsedan 10y ago

10 years here. It's nice to move to San Francisco and think, wow this is cheap as!

researcher11 10y ago
HA! I did the same thing.

brad0 10y ago

Hi mate, fellow Aussie here. I see you're currently living in China. I'm considering a move there in the next few years. Any chance I could ask you a couple of questions over email?

contingencies 10y ago
Sure, email in profile. Currently relocating to Shenzhen. Have previously lived in many places in Yunnan, Shanghai and Qingdao. Could maybe hook up some remote work - re: your experience in mobile banking.

nailer 10y ago

10 years here. I moved to London, where housing is pretty awful (but not quite as bad) but an attitude to tech that's comfortably between the cynicism of "tech is a scam used to separate idiots from their wallets" (Australia) and the wild enthusiasm of "Snapchat IPO" (US).

talldan 10y ago
Surprised that you think London housing is not as bad as Australia. Prices here are quite a bit higher in London, and from what I understand, London salaries are also often not as high. I've lived in London for 10 years, and my partner is Australian. We've considered moving to Australia recently, so the above is from my research.
- lamynator 10y ago
  I moved to London from Sydney a year ago and I couldn't agree more. Unless you are prepared to live in a damp cupboard, prices are way higher and salaries are lower.

jacques_chester 10y ago

I think the lack of venture is more complex than that; a mix of culture and regulation. There are only 23 million odd Australians, but there is well north of $2 trillion AUD in our superannuation accounts. Assuming they applied 0.5% of that towards VC, you'd be looking at $10bn AUD of available capital. At least one order of magnitude more than is currently present. Also, last I checked, stock-based comp in Australia is tax-disadvantageous. I can't recall if it was FBT or something else.

glenngillen 10y ago
I'd say that from a pure opportunity cost perspective the performance of property & mining alone is justification for the lack of VC in Australia. If simple well understood businesses (dig up rocks or buy land and build) can return > 10% YoY, why would any intelligent investor poor money into an asset class that has underperformed that in the same period?
- jacques_chester 10y ago
  Yet the VC lifecycle is very much like the mining lifecycle. Exploration, drilling, construction, exploitation. The early stages cost millions and often lead to failure, with the occasional profitable case and rare super-profitable discoveries. Scaling up costs major capital, after which, prices allowing, a mine can be a cash cow.
daemin 10y ago
I think the current government was looking into that at some point, but I don't know what happened with that. I remember when I worked at a startup the choice when I got stock options was - pay the tax up front based on the current strike price value - or pay a higher tax when you exercise them and make a profit. If you take the first choice then you'll need to do a lot of paper work to get that money back should the company fail.

cylinder 10y ago

Eh, you don't need massive VC to get quality resilient tech companies. You need massive VC for massive bubbles. Sydney has some good startups going now, I would say on a per capita basis Australia does well. It's not Australia's fault that companies become successful and then move to larger markets to be closer to customers and such. Things have been rapidly changing too with the young generation. Smart people are skipping the investment banks for startups because they see the opportunity.