4 ms·

I mean, they were invited to come over and the Prophet(S) was invited to take a role of the head of state. Generally speaking most (not all) of the native Arab

by mkaziz 10y ago

I mean, they were invited to come over and the Prophet(S) was invited to take a role of the head of state. Generally speaking most (not all) of the native Arab population (excluding the Jews) was happy about it. So in that sense, yes they were "subjugated" in that their were subject to him as head of state. It's not unlike a modern election where even if you're not happy about the result of the election, you're still subject to rules made by the new government.

leereeves 10y ago
Do we have any histories not written by Muslims confirming that they were invited or that Muhammad was voluntarily given absolute and hereditary power? As for being like a modern election, well, Trump hasn't exiled any Democrats yet.
- mkaziz 10y ago
  a) It wasn't hereditary. b) A bunch of ragtag Meccans came to Medina with a destitute Prophet, where there were two well armed and well established Arab tribes and three Jewish tribes. No armed conflict took place, because there is no reasonable way to assert that that would not be recorded, by both Jewish and Muslim sources.
  - leereeves 10y ago
    a) I guess whether it was hereditary depends on whether you're Sunni or Shia. Either way, it certainly was heritable, lasting beyond Muhammad's death, to be inherited by either his cousin or his wife's father. b) Muhammad united the two Arab tribes and conquered Medina, expelling or killing the three Jewish tribes. Is that your understanding?
    - mkaziz 10y ago
      A) I'm sure he planned that when he escaped from Mecca on a camel. B) yes kind of like how the Russians went communist and then invaded Afghanistan. /a whole lot happened in between/ --- Anyway, I'm done arguing. You obviously won't be convinced and neither will I, and I have better things to do than argue with a person on the internet. Good luck with whatever it is that you do and no hard feelings.
      - leereeves 10y ago
        The Hijrah was in 622, Mohammad died in 632. Ten years to solidify power in Medina and Mecca isn't really comparable to the seventy years and a world war between the Russian Revolution and the invasion of Afghanistan. I'm sorry you didn't find this worth your time. I've learned a few things from this discussion, and refreshed my memory of a few others, so I found it worthwhile. Thanks for the discussion.

by mkaziz 10y ago

leereeves 10y ago

Do we have any histories not written by Muslims confirming that they were invited or that Muhammad was voluntarily given absolute and hereditary power? As for being like a modern election, well, Trump hasn't exiled any Democrats yet.

mkaziz 10y ago
a) It wasn't hereditary. b) A bunch of ragtag Meccans came to Medina with a destitute Prophet, where there were two well armed and well established Arab tribes and three Jewish tribes. No armed conflict took place, because there is no reasonable way to assert that that would not be recorded, by both Jewish and Muslim sources.
- leereeves 10y ago
  a) I guess whether it was hereditary depends on whether you're Sunni or Shia. Either way, it certainly was heritable, lasting beyond Muhammad's death, to be inherited by either his cousin or his wife's father. b) Muhammad united the two Arab tribes and conquered Medina, expelling or killing the three Jewish tribes. Is that your understanding?
  - mkaziz 10y ago
    A) I'm sure he planned that when he escaped from Mecca on a camel. B) yes kind of like how the Russians went communist and then invaded Afghanistan. /a whole lot happened in between/ --- Anyway, I'm done arguing. You obviously won't be convinced and neither will I, and I have better things to do than argue with a person on the internet. Good luck with whatever it is that you do and no hard feelings.
    - leereeves 10y ago
      The Hijrah was in 622, Mohammad died in 632. Ten years to solidify power in Medina and Mecca isn't really comparable to the seventy years and a world war between the Russian Revolution and the invasion of Afghanistan. I'm sorry you didn't find this worth your time. I've learned a few things from this discussion, and refreshed my memory of a few others, so I found it worthwhile. Thanks for the discussion.