4 ms·

> As another commenter noted, yes, it's far too draining to research a company and manufacture a B.S. cover letter. Look, we're professionals here. I applied to

by Batsu 16y ago

> As another commenter noted, yes, it's far too draining to research a company and manufacture a B.S. cover letter. Look, we're professionals here. I applied to your position because it looks like a good fit for my skills. I'm sorry that you have to dig through others who spammed you with unrelated email, but that's really not my problem. Do you want you corporate ego stroked, or do you want a qualified applicant who will make you money? Agree completely. As far as I'm concerned, unless you really interest me, I should spend about as much time researching your company as you will reading my resume.

kenjackson 16y ago
Then why send the resume at all? If you have little interest in the company, have no interest to spend 5 minutes writing a cover letter, and expect they'll only spend 10s looking at your resume, why bother sending it?
- pyre 16y ago
  I doubt that many people get excited about applying for a job as a garbage collector, but someone has to do the job. It's not all the time that you have the luxury of only applying for jobs that you want to do.
- ninjac0der 16y ago
  Only hiring people who you think view the position as their dream job tends to be the same companies who will proceed to milk every bit of life out of the applicant as possible. Some people take work, work hard, and do an excellent job for the paycheck, not so they can join your corporate culture.
- georgieporgie 16y ago
  > Then why send the resume at all? If you have little interest in the company, have no interest to spend 5 minutes writing a cover letter Okay, I really don't understand this line of thinking at all. I would genuinely like it if someone could possibly explain this. As I said above, I'm a professional, you're a professional. I am offering to you my talent and wisdom which will earn you more than it costs you. You are offering to me money and (maybe) a pleasant working environment. So we're entering into this on a level playing field. Why am I expected to do a bunch of research and write up a customized cover letter, other than to satisfy your ego? As far as I'm concerned, this is a courtship like any other. I say, "hey, here's my resume, what do you think?" You say, "hey, I like it, here's what we're like, what do you think?" and we go from there. The whole, "we demand a cover letter that makes our nipples tingle," thing strikes me as ineffectual middle-management HR B.S. which probably keeps a lot of great people from ever getting interviewed.
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    Since you asked for me to explain it to you, I'll do so. As someone who has hired many people I've learned that people with so little interest as to spend five minutes looking us up are typically generally lazy (even outside the context of our company) and specifically may be incompetent. At the point of looking at resumes I have very little to go on. If the resume comes in with Kool Aid stains on it, and states that you'd like any job that pays, preferably working with hot chicks, I'm less inclined to spend much time with your resume. Everyone says they're a professional. Unless I'm desperate to hire someone, the burden of proof is on you. And the fact of the matter is if I'm getting 500 resumes, and 50 of them can point to having reverse engineered our object-model in high school, why does your resume asking "what is it that you guys do again?" merit a second look. Maybe in a world where you're especially in demand, what you suggest is fine. If I get Sergey Brin or David Cutler's resume on my desk, I'll call them and let them know what we do. But if you're random dev -- well you need to prove you're not JUST a random dev. And this really is relative. If you're applying for the most coveted dev role in the world, you need to show more in the resume than if you're applying to fix bugs in the Waste Management LOB app written in COBOL from 1979.
    - georgieporgie 16y ago
      I'm going to maintain that employers should look beyond a cover letter and see if the applicant's past experience indicates that they're actually relevant to the role. > 50 of them can point to having reverse engineered our object-model in high school, why does your resume asking "what is it that you guys do again?" merit a second look. That's an unfair comparison. One indicates, presumably, direct technical experience with your product. Between engineer A, who has X years of relevant experience and no cover letter, versus engineer B who has Y years of irrelevant experience, but an awesome cover letter, who are you going to choose? > But if you're random dev -- well you need to prove you're not JUST a random dev. That's precisely what my resume does. A flattering cover letter only serves to demonstrate my B.S. skills. Now, I'll admit that I can certainly write a cover letter which is technically relevant. I will highlight my skills in particular areas named by the job listing. However, it's been my experience that HR looks for utter bullshit on the resume, and manager types want to hear how awesome their company is. The funny thing is, I haven't heard of most tech companies, and most tech companies have pretty bland websites which are just marketing tools and don't tell me anything relevant to working at a company as a software engineer. I dunno, I'm wildly jaded by both sides. I openly admit that I have a bug up my ass about H.R. because I've had too many problems with them on both sides: trying to weed me out for B.S. reasons (e.g. "would you say computers are more of a job, or a hobby?"), and preventing me from interviewing qualified candidates, while sending me godawful douchebags who can't even write a for loop.

by Batsu 16y ago

kenjackson 16y ago

Then why send the resume at all? If you have little interest in the company, have no interest to spend 5 minutes writing a cover letter, and expect they'll only spend 10s looking at your resume, why bother sending it?

pyre 16y ago
I doubt that many people get excited about applying for a job as a garbage collector, but someone has to do the job. It's not all the time that you have the luxury of only applying for jobs that you want to do.
ninjac0der 16y ago
Only hiring people who you think view the position as their dream job tends to be the same companies who will proceed to milk every bit of life out of the applicant as possible. Some people take work, work hard, and do an excellent job for the paycheck, not so they can join your corporate culture.
georgieporgie 16y ago
> Then why send the resume at all? If you have little interest in the company, have no interest to spend 5 minutes writing a cover letter Okay, I really don't understand this line of thinking at all. I would genuinely like it if someone could possibly explain this. As I said above, I'm a professional, you're a professional. I am offering to you my talent and wisdom which will earn you more than it costs you. You are offering to me money and (maybe) a pleasant working environment. So we're entering into this on a level playing field. Why am I expected to do a bunch of research and write up a customized cover letter, other than to satisfy your ego? As far as I'm concerned, this is a courtship like any other. I say, "hey, here's my resume, what do you think?" You say, "hey, I like it, here's what we're like, what do you think?" and we go from there. The whole, "we demand a cover letter that makes our nipples tingle," thing strikes me as ineffectual middle-management HR B.S. which probably keeps a lot of great people from ever getting interviewed.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  Since you asked for me to explain it to you, I'll do so. As someone who has hired many people I've learned that people with so little interest as to spend five minutes looking us up are typically generally lazy (even outside the context of our company) and specifically may be incompetent. At the point of looking at resumes I have very little to go on. If the resume comes in with Kool Aid stains on it, and states that you'd like any job that pays, preferably working with hot chicks, I'm less inclined to spend much time with your resume. Everyone says they're a professional. Unless I'm desperate to hire someone, the burden of proof is on you. And the fact of the matter is if I'm getting 500 resumes, and 50 of them can point to having reverse engineered our object-model in high school, why does your resume asking "what is it that you guys do again?" merit a second look. Maybe in a world where you're especially in demand, what you suggest is fine. If I get Sergey Brin or David Cutler's resume on my desk, I'll call them and let them know what we do. But if you're random dev -- well you need to prove you're not JUST a random dev. And this really is relative. If you're applying for the most coveted dev role in the world, you need to show more in the resume than if you're applying to fix bugs in the Waste Management LOB app written in COBOL from 1979.
  - georgieporgie 16y ago
    I'm going to maintain that employers should look beyond a cover letter and see if the applicant's past experience indicates that they're actually relevant to the role. > 50 of them can point to having reverse engineered our object-model in high school, why does your resume asking "what is it that you guys do again?" merit a second look. That's an unfair comparison. One indicates, presumably, direct technical experience with your product. Between engineer A, who has X years of relevant experience and no cover letter, versus engineer B who has Y years of irrelevant experience, but an awesome cover letter, who are you going to choose? > But if you're random dev -- well you need to prove you're not JUST a random dev. That's precisely what my resume does. A flattering cover letter only serves to demonstrate my B.S. skills. Now, I'll admit that I can certainly write a cover letter which is technically relevant. I will highlight my skills in particular areas named by the job listing. However, it's been my experience that HR looks for utter bullshit on the resume, and manager types want to hear how awesome their company is. The funny thing is, I haven't heard of most tech companies, and most tech companies have pretty bland websites which are just marketing tools and don't tell me anything relevant to working at a company as a software engineer. I dunno, I'm wildly jaded by both sides. I openly admit that I have a bug up my ass about H.R. because I've had too many problems with them on both sides: trying to weed me out for B.S. reasons (e.g. "would you say computers are more of a job, or a hobby?"), and preventing me from interviewing qualified candidates, while sending me godawful douchebags who can't even write a for loop.