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I taught English in Japan for 2 years. I realized that the they spend less on education than America and have better results. The solution to education problem

by dayvid 10y ago

I taught English in Japan for 2 years. I realized that the they spend less on education than America and have better results. The solution to education problems isn't throwing money at it. Or at least spend it on teacher salaries, right?

Retric 10y ago
You need to compare the %GDP on teacher salary's vs overhead to see where America falls down. Remember, the US system is focused on getting as much government funding into corporate hands. So, paying teachers provide little value, but textbooks, technology, and testing goes directly to company's that know how to keep the pork flowing. http://www.edweek.org/ew/section/multimedia/map-how-per-pupil-spending-compares-across-us.html http://www.edweek.org/ew/section/multimedia/map-how-per-pupi... At a ballpark a 30 student class might be ~12,000$ per student, but a starting teacher salary is on average ~45,000. Pay the teacher 120k (including benefits) and that's still only 1/3 of the total cost. (NYC pays over 20k per student and pays teachers $54,000 - $119,000 annually.) http://www.teachingdegree.org/new-york/salary/ http://www.teachingdegree.org/new-york/salary/
- GordonS 10y ago
  This is a very interesting proposition - imagine what could happen if you paid teachers 120k! Are there any countries that do pay teachers very highly?
  - Retric 10y ago
    Tenured teachers can become very expensive in the US, and they have significant retirement benefits. But, high pay is also in high cost of living areas. Luxembourg teacher salaries begin at 73,700 euros (79,920 USD), http://www.wort.lu/en/luxembourg/starting-salaries-of-73-700-euros-secondary-teachers-in-luxembourg-earn-highest-in-oecd-56979c560da165c55dc5132d http://www.wort.lu/en/luxembourg/starting-salaries-of-73-700... Germany hits second place.
cmdrfred 10y ago
The median high school teacher salary is $57,200[0], the median salary for the same level of education is $48,500[1] and often works more hours on a yearly basis, has less job security, and has worse benefits. Where does this teachers are underpaid meme come from? [0]https://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/mobile/high-school-teachers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/mobil... [1]http://study.com/articles/Average_Salary_With_A_Bachelors_Degree.html http://study.com/articles/Average_Salary_With_A_Bachelors_De...
- Retric 10y ago
  Preschool Teachers on the other hand make: $28,570 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/preschool-teachers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/presc... Though they don't need a BS only an associates degree. 1/2 of all teachers quit the profession in the first 5 years. So, the on the ground benefits tend to be worse than you might think. 9 and 1/2 percent don't even last their first year. Turnover in teaching is about four percent higher than other professions. https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-do-teachers-quit/280699/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-do... PS: High school also pays much better on average in large part because you need to deal with high school students.
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    If teachers unions didn't oppose standardized testing with such vigor it would be a simple matter to find a number of similar schools and increase wages for some time then compare outcomes. As far as I can tell preschool teacher salaries are low simply because we have too many preschool teachers, similarly we have too many fast food and retail workers. Yet we don't demand raises at McDonald's for food safety or quality purposes. Why here?
    - throwaway729 10y ago
      > If teachers unions didn't oppose standardized testing This of course assumes that standardized testing is actually a good mechanism for measuring outcomes. Which IMO is an extremely dubious assertion. A lot of people who opt-out of the public school system at great personal expense do so because they agree with those damn teacher's unions on this very question. > Why here? Simple. Because I don't care if my burger sucks but I do care that my kid doesn't get a good early education. A preschool teacher could triple their salary without leaving the middle class. Depending on the size of their family they might even be living in poverty while working full-time. People teach for a lot of reasons, but even the most enthusiastic and altruistic person is going to bulk at that kind of a sacrifice. And understandably so.

by dayvid 10y ago

Retric 10y ago

You need to compare the %GDP on teacher salary's vs overhead to see where America falls down. Remember, the US system is focused on getting as much government funding into corporate hands. So, paying teachers provide little value, but textbooks, technology, and testing goes directly to company's that know how to keep the pork flowing. http://www.edweek.org/ew/section/multimedia/map-how-per-pupil-spending-compares-across-us.html http://www.edweek.org/ew/section/multimedia/map-how-per-pupi... At a ballpark a 30 student class might be ~12,000$ per student, but a starting teacher salary is on average ~45,000. Pay the teacher 120k (including benefits) and that's still only 1/3 of the total cost. (NYC pays over 20k per student and pays teachers $54,000 - $119,000 annually.) http://www.teachingdegree.org/new-york/salary/ http://www.teachingdegree.org/new-york/salary/

GordonS 10y ago
This is a very interesting proposition - imagine what could happen if you paid teachers 120k! Are there any countries that do pay teachers very highly?
- Retric 10y ago
  Tenured teachers can become very expensive in the US, and they have significant retirement benefits. But, high pay is also in high cost of living areas. Luxembourg teacher salaries begin at 73,700 euros (79,920 USD), http://www.wort.lu/en/luxembourg/starting-salaries-of-73-700-euros-secondary-teachers-in-luxembourg-earn-highest-in-oecd-56979c560da165c55dc5132d http://www.wort.lu/en/luxembourg/starting-salaries-of-73-700... Germany hits second place.

cmdrfred 10y ago

The median high school teacher salary is $57,200[0], the median salary for the same level of education is $48,500[1] and often works more hours on a yearly basis, has less job security, and has worse benefits. Where does this teachers are underpaid meme come from? [0]https://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/mobile/high-school-teachers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/mobil... [1]http://study.com/articles/Average_Salary_With_A_Bachelors_Degree.html http://study.com/articles/Average_Salary_With_A_Bachelors_De...

Retric 10y ago
Preschool Teachers on the other hand make: $28,570 https://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/preschool-teachers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/presc... Though they don't need a BS only an associates degree. 1/2 of all teachers quit the profession in the first 5 years. So, the on the ground benefits tend to be worse than you might think. 9 and 1/2 percent don't even last their first year. Turnover in teaching is about four percent higher than other professions. https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-do-teachers-quit/280699/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-do... PS: High school also pays much better on average in large part because you need to deal with high school students.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  If teachers unions didn't oppose standardized testing with such vigor it would be a simple matter to find a number of similar schools and increase wages for some time then compare outcomes. As far as I can tell preschool teacher salaries are low simply because we have too many preschool teachers, similarly we have too many fast food and retail workers. Yet we don't demand raises at McDonald's for food safety or quality purposes. Why here?
  - throwaway729 10y ago
    > If teachers unions didn't oppose standardized testing This of course assumes that standardized testing is actually a good mechanism for measuring outcomes. Which IMO is an extremely dubious assertion. A lot of people who opt-out of the public school system at great personal expense do so because they agree with those damn teacher's unions on this very question. > Why here? Simple. Because I don't care if my burger sucks but I do care that my kid doesn't get a good early education. A preschool teacher could triple their salary without leaving the middle class. Depending on the size of their family they might even be living in poverty while working full-time. People teach for a lot of reasons, but even the most enthusiastic and altruistic person is going to bulk at that kind of a sacrifice. And understandably so.