5 ms·

In a world full of bloated Electron HTML5 / JS "desktop apps", I'm very happy to see Telegram on Windows is a native app (Qt). It feels so incredibly responsive

by r1ch 10y ago

In a world full of bloated Electron HTML5 / JS "desktop apps", I'm very happy to see Telegram on Windows is a native app (Qt). It feels so incredibly responsive compared to everything else.

jsheard 10y ago
The funny thing is that Qt apps used to be derided for bloat (15MB of DLLs! 15MB!) but the rise of Electron has made Qt seem featherweight by comparison.
- StavrosK 10y ago
  Yeah, I remember years ago when I was pondering writing a desktop app in Python and thinking "Python? It would be so bloated!", and nowadays nobody gives a shit about being able to load more than four programs at once.
- r1ch 10y ago
  I've been involved in a project that went from standard Win32 controls to Qt, and while I was very much against Qt at the time (such bloat!), I can't deny how easy it has made cross platform UI work. With many apps being written in HTML/JS, a C++ Qt framework is still magnitudes faster than a JS interpreter.
  - owlmirror 10y ago
    I have zero experience with Qt but have heard that it has problems with High DPI presentations. Now It seems that they did something in that regard in Qt 5.6, but do you have anything to say or an idea about the maturity of it?
    - floatboth 10y ago
      Qt classic (C++) apps run flawlessly on my 4K desktop (150% scale in Windows). QML/QtQuick apps only support integer scaling for whatever ridiculous reason ("fuck your monitor we need to be pixel perfect" or whatever) so they're either tiny or huge.
- drzaiusapelord 10y ago
  >15MB of DLLs! 15MB! Life's a little different now than in the old XP days. Disk space and ram aren't as limiting as before and the slow redraw times of qt and other cross-platform libraries have been taken care of by GPU hardware acceleration, faster ram, and faster CPUs. These complaints were valid back then and our opinions didn't change because of things like Electron, as much as our hardware is so much more powerful. I remember dreading running Java desktop apps and now I can barely see the difference between them and native win32 apps. Heck, running an app on a virtualized OS on top of my native OS is often fairly performant nowadays.
incogitomode 10y ago
They have a beautiful native macOS app as well. Also, excellent support for groups, including group URLs you can stick on a github page. Great program all around.
- lucb1e 10y ago
  Not to mention GNU/Linux support. That's one of my main reasons for sticking around. Wire just can't compete, unfortunately.
- always_good 10y ago
  I use the OSX app, too. But there was a downgrade going from the App Store version to the recent "Desktop Telegram" version. The latter lost bindings like ctrl-a, ctrl-u. If I could be bothered, I'd delete the "Desktop" release and go back to the App Store version.
  - garettmd 10y ago
    When you say "desktop" version, do you mean the cross-platform one that offers downloads for Win/Mac/nix, or the specifically Mac version that has a whole lot less features (at this point) than the cross-platform version?
    - gergles 10y ago
      He means the former, which is called "Telegram Desktop". The Mac-specific App Store version is a better app, but has been abandoned in favor of the (crappy) "Telegram Desktop."
      - szastupov 10y ago
        Judging from recent updates it's still alive. The version in AppStore might be stale (not sure) but if you install the version from site (https://macos.telegram.org https://macos.telegram.org) you'll get frequent update.e But I must admit that amount of clients is confusing.
      - deleted 10y ago
necessity 10y ago
And Qt is what?
- JJJollyjim 10y ago
  A UI toolkit
- lucb1e 10y ago
  A very well-known cross-platform GUI library. If you google qt, the top hits are the official website and Wikipedia. Without clicking any link, the descriptions would have given you an answer.
  - necessity 10y ago
    I know what it is, it's just not lightweight.
    - Cthulhu_ 10y ago
      It is compared to Electron; I don't know how WPF compares though, IIRC the 'de facto' way to make windows native apps nowadays also involves some web technology?
      - skrebbel 10y ago
        I don't think "de facto" exists on Windows anymore, but most WPF and UWP apps are 100% C#.
    - lucb1e 10y ago
      Ah, sorry I misunderstood you.
chrisseaton 10y ago
> Telegram on Windows is a native app (Qt) I thought Qt still bypassed the native user interface and drew all their own controls?
- bpicolo 10y ago
  That doesn't make it a non-native app. They're still just leveraging direct platform APIs under the hood. Native these days seems to mean "without a web browser under the hood".
  - skrebbel 10y ago
    Not even that. I've seen plenty Electron and Cordova apps billed as "native". The word has lost meaning as to nontechnical users, it's mostly about "can i install it directly on my device". We need better terms.
    - brianwawok 10y ago
      Native means "It doesn't run inside my web browser". But it being a window that runs a second web browser, that is OK.
    - abalashov 10y ago
      Indeed. Wrapping a browser control is not "native".

by r1ch 10y ago

In a world full of bloated Electron HTML5 / JS "desktop apps", I'm very happy to see Telegram on Windows is a native app (Qt). It feels so incredibly responsive compared to everything else.

jsheard 10y ago

The funny thing is that Qt apps used to be derided for bloat (15MB of DLLs! 15MB!) but the rise of Electron has made Qt seem featherweight by comparison.

StavrosK 10y ago
Yeah, I remember years ago when I was pondering writing a desktop app in Python and thinking "Python? It would be so bloated!", and nowadays nobody gives a shit about being able to load more than four programs at once.
r1ch 10y ago
I've been involved in a project that went from standard Win32 controls to Qt, and while I was very much against Qt at the time (such bloat!), I can't deny how easy it has made cross platform UI work. With many apps being written in HTML/JS, a C++ Qt framework is still magnitudes faster than a JS interpreter.
- owlmirror 10y ago
  I have zero experience with Qt but have heard that it has problems with High DPI presentations. Now It seems that they did something in that regard in Qt 5.6, but do you have anything to say or an idea about the maturity of it?
  - floatboth 10y ago
    Qt classic (C++) apps run flawlessly on my 4K desktop (150% scale in Windows). QML/QtQuick apps only support integer scaling for whatever ridiculous reason ("fuck your monitor we need to be pixel perfect" or whatever) so they're either tiny or huge.
drzaiusapelord 10y ago
>15MB of DLLs! 15MB! Life's a little different now than in the old XP days. Disk space and ram aren't as limiting as before and the slow redraw times of qt and other cross-platform libraries have been taken care of by GPU hardware acceleration, faster ram, and faster CPUs. These complaints were valid back then and our opinions didn't change because of things like Electron, as much as our hardware is so much more powerful. I remember dreading running Java desktop apps and now I can barely see the difference between them and native win32 apps. Heck, running an app on a virtualized OS on top of my native OS is often fairly performant nowadays.

incogitomode 10y ago

They have a beautiful native macOS app as well. Also, excellent support for groups, including group URLs you can stick on a github page. Great program all around.

lucb1e 10y ago
Not to mention GNU/Linux support. That's one of my main reasons for sticking around. Wire just can't compete, unfortunately.
always_good 10y ago
I use the OSX app, too. But there was a downgrade going from the App Store version to the recent "Desktop Telegram" version. The latter lost bindings like ctrl-a, ctrl-u. If I could be bothered, I'd delete the "Desktop" release and go back to the App Store version.
- garettmd 10y ago
  When you say "desktop" version, do you mean the cross-platform one that offers downloads for Win/Mac/nix, or the specifically Mac version that has a whole lot less features (at this point) than the cross-platform version?
  - gergles 10y ago
    He means the former, which is called "Telegram Desktop". The Mac-specific App Store version is a better app, but has been abandoned in favor of the (crappy) "Telegram Desktop."
    - szastupov 10y ago
      Judging from recent updates it's still alive. The version in AppStore might be stale (not sure) but if you install the version from site (https://macos.telegram.org https://macos.telegram.org) you'll get frequent update.e But I must admit that amount of clients is confusing.
    - deleted 10y ago

necessity 10y ago

And Qt is what?

JJJollyjim 10y ago
A UI toolkit
lucb1e 10y ago
A very well-known cross-platform GUI library. If you google qt, the top hits are the official website and Wikipedia. Without clicking any link, the descriptions would have given you an answer.
- necessity 10y ago
  I know what it is, it's just not lightweight.
  - Cthulhu_ 10y ago
    It is compared to Electron; I don't know how WPF compares though, IIRC the 'de facto' way to make windows native apps nowadays also involves some web technology?
    - skrebbel 10y ago
      I don't think "de facto" exists on Windows anymore, but most WPF and UWP apps are 100% C#.
  - lucb1e 10y ago
    Ah, sorry I misunderstood you.

chrisseaton 10y ago

> Telegram on Windows is a native app (Qt) I thought Qt still bypassed the native user interface and drew all their own controls?

bpicolo 10y ago
That doesn't make it a non-native app. They're still just leveraging direct platform APIs under the hood. Native these days seems to mean "without a web browser under the hood".
- skrebbel 10y ago
  Not even that. I've seen plenty Electron and Cordova apps billed as "native". The word has lost meaning as to nontechnical users, it's mostly about "can i install it directly on my device". We need better terms.
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    Native means "It doesn't run inside my web browser". But it being a window that runs a second web browser, that is OK.
  - abalashov 10y ago
    Indeed. Wrapping a browser control is not "native".