4 ms·

> end-to-end only device to device (so I can't swap seamlessly from a desktop to a mobile session) How do you accomplish a seamless swap from desktop to a mobi

> end-to-end only device to device (so I can't swap seamlessly from a desktop to a mobile session) How do you accomplish a seamless swap from desktop to a mobile session using end-to-end encryption?

danieldk 10y ago
iMessage has end to end encryption and supports multiple devices. Each device uses its own keypair and when a message is sent, it is sent encrypted for each of the recipient's devices. https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf
- samat 10y ago
  The hard part is how do you manage a list of trusted devices. The thing which is really sad is that there are no end to end encrypted group chats.
  - pfg 10y ago
    > The thing which is really sad is that there are no end to end encrypted group chats. In iMessage specifically, or in general? WhatsApp/Signal do use E2E-crypto for group chats.
  - 16 10y ago
    https://riot.im https://riot.im is doing this. e2e is in beta still, but they have key list management/verification in place already.
- sleepychu 10y ago
  How do I find out that my recipient has a new device/public key that they'd like me to encrypt with? If it's because Apple tells me so then I think can see that the end to end encryption is broken and interception is possible. Are old messages re-encrypted with the new key? This would be even worse.
  - pfg 10y ago
    iMessage does not allow for any out-of-band key verification. It's correct that that Apple (and anyone compromising them) is in a position to change the recipient's key or add new ones without the sender noticing anything's going on. I think iMessage limits this to new messages. (I believe syncing is done through iCloud, which doesn't use E2E-crypto but is optional.) It would still be possible to implement this in a secure way (including out-of-band key verification) by having the "original" key (the one you've compared out-of-band) sign keys for new devices and have the server deliver that signature (which the sender can then verify). I don't know if there are any implementations of this.
16 10y ago
https://riot.im https://riot.im Most seamless end-to-end encrypted solution I've come across. And it's still in beta. Every piece is open source (I'm running my own server), it's federated, supports history sync as a first-citizen feature, individual read receipts for group messages. The UX is not as polished as Telegram, but it's improving rapidly and is more than usable as a daily driver.
- ouesp 10y ago
  How is the quality of web based VoIP through the browsers in your hosted riot.im ?
  - cschmittiey 10y ago
    Using riot.im/app/ to communicate with others worked surprisingly well, quality seemed good.
    - ouesp 10y ago
      I ended up installing Mumble in aws because I only need voice.

> end-to-end only device to device (so I can't swap seamlessly from a desktop to a mobile session) How do you accomplish a seamless swap from desktop to a mobile session using end-to-end encryption?

danieldk 10y ago

iMessage has end to end encryption and supports multiple devices. Each device uses its own keypair and when a message is sent, it is sent encrypted for each of the recipient's devices. https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf

samat 10y ago
The hard part is how do you manage a list of trusted devices. The thing which is really sad is that there are no end to end encrypted group chats.
- pfg 10y ago
  > The thing which is really sad is that there are no end to end encrypted group chats. In iMessage specifically, or in general? WhatsApp/Signal do use E2E-crypto for group chats.
- 16 10y ago
  https://riot.im https://riot.im is doing this. e2e is in beta still, but they have key list management/verification in place already.
sleepychu 10y ago
How do I find out that my recipient has a new device/public key that they'd like me to encrypt with? If it's because Apple tells me so then I think can see that the end to end encryption is broken and interception is possible. Are old messages re-encrypted with the new key? This would be even worse.
- pfg 10y ago
  iMessage does not allow for any out-of-band key verification. It's correct that that Apple (and anyone compromising them) is in a position to change the recipient's key or add new ones without the sender noticing anything's going on. I think iMessage limits this to new messages. (I believe syncing is done through iCloud, which doesn't use E2E-crypto but is optional.) It would still be possible to implement this in a secure way (including out-of-band key verification) by having the "original" key (the one you've compared out-of-band) sign keys for new devices and have the server deliver that signature (which the sender can then verify). I don't know if there are any implementations of this.

16 10y ago

https://riot.im https://riot.im Most seamless end-to-end encrypted solution I've come across. And it's still in beta. Every piece is open source (I'm running my own server), it's federated, supports history sync as a first-citizen feature, individual read receipts for group messages. The UX is not as polished as Telegram, but it's improving rapidly and is more than usable as a daily driver.

ouesp 10y ago
How is the quality of web based VoIP through the browsers in your hosted riot.im ?
- cschmittiey 10y ago
  Using riot.im/app/ to communicate with others worked surprisingly well, quality seemed good.
  - ouesp 10y ago
    I ended up installing Mumble in aws because I only need voice.