40 ms·

> "Farm here or I'll decapitate you." I think you got confused, that's communism. :P And it's not decapitation (too messy) it is a bullet to the back of the he

by rdtsc 10y ago

> "Farm here or I'll decapitate you." I think you got confused, that's communism. :P And it's not decapitation (too messy) it is a bullet to the back of the head or death in a labor camp. Feudalism is "you can farm here but you owe me and your promise to fight in my wars". > The fact that you harbor a resentment as if the former is anything like the latter is slightly terrifying. Really? Is it terrifying to compare a vassal's contract with the "work for me in the warehouse and I'll pay you a minimum wage, if you don't like, there is a line waiting at the door". They are not the same, it's a bit silly but is that sending shivers down our spine?

saiya-jin 10y ago
> Feudalism is "you can farm here but you owe me and your promise to fight in my wars". + if you will marry, I have every right to fuck your new wife on your wedding night, just before you. with church blessing. good luck figuring our if your first kid is yours or not. or having happy marriage. + I can kill you, anytime, for no reason, without consequence, horribly slow. or whole village. the only motivation to not do so is losing a bit of wealth since you all are my property, nothing more. but sometimes I can afford to lose a bit of property, just for the fun of it. > Really? Is it terrifying to compare a vassal's contract with the "work for me in the warehouse and I'll pay you a minimum wage, if you don't like, there is a line waiting at the door". They are not the same, it's a bit silly but is that sending shivers down our spine? WTF? there is a whole world to discover, to (re)define yourself, endless amounts of activities/job to take if really wanted/needed. you are FREE to choose your own fate. even building next amazon if you can do it. your skills and sky is the only real limit. so yes, comparing those 2 sends shivers down my spine too, since this is just envy. don't blame some rich guy for wrong choices earlier in your life (ie what to study). don't forget, horrible things like communism are built on envy and sense of entitlement.
- rdtsc 10y ago
  > , I have every right to fuck your new wife on your wedding night, Did you study this in school or read about or just watched movies? > sky is the only real limit. so yes, comparing those 2 sends shivers down my spine too, since this is just envy. I didn't blame anyone. Just pointing out that comparison is not really that outrageous and terrifying, mostly because it builds a straw-man out of what feudalism was about. If you believe kings and lords were going around sleeping with brides everywhere on their first night, yes, I can see why a lot of things would send shivers down your spine.
- metaphorm 10y ago
  you're not describing Feudalism. you're describing an imaginary system that combines the worst attributes of slavery, theocracy, and lawless rule-by-violence.
- ionised 10y ago
  + if you will marry, I have every right to fuck your new wife on your wedding night, just before you. with church blessing. good luck figuring our if your first kid is yours or not. or having happy marriage. Prima Noctis was a myth and no evidence of it every being practiced can be found.
- TheCoelacanth 10y ago
  > if you will marry, I have every right to fuck your new wife on your wedding night, just before you. with church blessing. good luck figuring our if your first kid is yours or not. or having happy marriage. That is widely considered to be Enlightenment-era propaganda, not an actual feudal practice. > I can kill you, anytime, for no reason, without consequence, horribly slow. or whole village. the only motivation to not do so is losing a bit of wealth since you all are my property, nothing more. but sometimes I can afford to lose a bit of property, just for the fun of it. Generally not. Most serfs had some minimal rights and couldn't be killed without justification.
emt02 10y ago
> that's communism. I think you're confused about communism. What you're talking about seems more about soviet russia and other countries that run/ran an authoritarian state-capitalism system (often calling it communism). However, communism has nothing to do with enforcing people to work under a threat of death, rather the contrary.
- monort 10y ago
  From Communist Manifesto: 8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. Unsurprisingly this leads to labor camps in every communist government.
  - emt02 10y ago
    According to the communist manifesto, the point you mention should be put into effect during the transitory phase from capitalism to communism, where the State gathers the power in order to then build a class-less, state-less society. That is just a mean to reach the final goal, and it does not mention labor camps or anything like that. I'm curious on which communist government are you talking about, since pretty much all the "communist" revolutions so far did not actually implement communism but state capitalism (as Lenin himself said), except for some libertarian communist revolutions (e.g. revolutionary Catalogna, Ukraine) that were then defeated militarily. On one thing I agree with you though, which is that putting all the power into the state is not a good way to achieve communism, as it is dangerous and it pretty much never worked so far.
- marknutter 10y ago
  No true communism.
- rdtsc 10y ago
  I am not confused I lived in a communist country.
  - metaphorm 10y ago
    communism as an ideal seems impossible to implement in any way besides the authoritarian state-capitalism way that it has been implemented. that accomplishes the objectives of having a command economy with full employment (even if its monstrously inefficient), but it certainly doesn't come close to creating a just political order where the policies serve the people instead of the owners of the means of production (which is the state). the Mondragon Corporation[1] is one of the few interesting experiments with a Communism-inspired system that does not immediately degenerate into authoritarian state-capitalism. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

by rdtsc 10y ago

saiya-jin 10y ago

> Feudalism is "you can farm here but you owe me and your promise to fight in my wars". + if you will marry, I have every right to fuck your new wife on your wedding night, just before you. with church blessing. good luck figuring our if your first kid is yours or not. or having happy marriage. + I can kill you, anytime, for no reason, without consequence, horribly slow. or whole village. the only motivation to not do so is losing a bit of wealth since you all are my property, nothing more. but sometimes I can afford to lose a bit of property, just for the fun of it. > Really? Is it terrifying to compare a vassal's contract with the "work for me in the warehouse and I'll pay you a minimum wage, if you don't like, there is a line waiting at the door". They are not the same, it's a bit silly but is that sending shivers down our spine? WTF? there is a whole world to discover, to (re)define yourself, endless amounts of activities/job to take if really wanted/needed. you are FREE to choose your own fate. even building next amazon if you can do it. your skills and sky is the only real limit. so yes, comparing those 2 sends shivers down my spine too, since this is just envy. don't blame some rich guy for wrong choices earlier in your life (ie what to study). don't forget, horrible things like communism are built on envy and sense of entitlement.

rdtsc 10y ago
> , I have every right to fuck your new wife on your wedding night, Did you study this in school or read about or just watched movies? > sky is the only real limit. so yes, comparing those 2 sends shivers down my spine too, since this is just envy. I didn't blame anyone. Just pointing out that comparison is not really that outrageous and terrifying, mostly because it builds a straw-man out of what feudalism was about. If you believe kings and lords were going around sleeping with brides everywhere on their first night, yes, I can see why a lot of things would send shivers down your spine.
metaphorm 10y ago
you're not describing Feudalism. you're describing an imaginary system that combines the worst attributes of slavery, theocracy, and lawless rule-by-violence.
ionised 10y ago
+ if you will marry, I have every right to fuck your new wife on your wedding night, just before you. with church blessing. good luck figuring our if your first kid is yours or not. or having happy marriage. Prima Noctis was a myth and no evidence of it every being practiced can be found.
TheCoelacanth 10y ago
> if you will marry, I have every right to fuck your new wife on your wedding night, just before you. with church blessing. good luck figuring our if your first kid is yours or not. or having happy marriage. That is widely considered to be Enlightenment-era propaganda, not an actual feudal practice. > I can kill you, anytime, for no reason, without consequence, horribly slow. or whole village. the only motivation to not do so is losing a bit of wealth since you all are my property, nothing more. but sometimes I can afford to lose a bit of property, just for the fun of it. Generally not. Most serfs had some minimal rights and couldn't be killed without justification.

emt02 10y ago

> that's communism. I think you're confused about communism. What you're talking about seems more about soviet russia and other countries that run/ran an authoritarian state-capitalism system (often calling it communism). However, communism has nothing to do with enforcing people to work under a threat of death, rather the contrary.

monort 10y ago
From Communist Manifesto: 8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. Unsurprisingly this leads to labor camps in every communist government.
- emt02 10y ago
  According to the communist manifesto, the point you mention should be put into effect during the transitory phase from capitalism to communism, where the State gathers the power in order to then build a class-less, state-less society. That is just a mean to reach the final goal, and it does not mention labor camps or anything like that. I'm curious on which communist government are you talking about, since pretty much all the "communist" revolutions so far did not actually implement communism but state capitalism (as Lenin himself said), except for some libertarian communist revolutions (e.g. revolutionary Catalogna, Ukraine) that were then defeated militarily. On one thing I agree with you though, which is that putting all the power into the state is not a good way to achieve communism, as it is dangerous and it pretty much never worked so far.
marknutter 10y ago
No true communism.
rdtsc 10y ago
I am not confused I lived in a communist country.
- metaphorm 10y ago
  communism as an ideal seems impossible to implement in any way besides the authoritarian state-capitalism way that it has been implemented. that accomplishes the objectives of having a command economy with full employment (even if its monstrously inefficient), but it certainly doesn't come close to creating a just political order where the policies serve the people instead of the owners of the means of production (which is the state). the Mondragon Corporation[1] is one of the few interesting experiments with a Communism-inspired system that does not immediately degenerate into authoritarian state-capitalism. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation