3 ms·

A friend, who knows more about aviation than me, once told me that Dubai is a great location to build up an airline hub which could provide non-stop flights to

by leipert 10y ago

A friend, who knows more about aviation than me, once told me that Dubai is a great location to build up an airline hub which could provide non-stop flights to every major airport. I was now wondering whether Seattle, Rio and Sydney would also make good locations. I checked, and there actually exist non-stop flights from Dubai to the other locations, but I was not able to find non-stop flights between Seattle-Rio, Sydney-Rio or Seattle-Sydney. Funny. It is however a bit ironic, that there are 12.000 km non-stop flights (or even farther to Auckland for example) from Dubai, but you cannot fly 2133 km non-stop to Tel Aviv.

niftich 10y ago
In practice, Seattle's location in one particular corner of the continental US, anchoring a metropolitan area that's "only" 13th in population (by CSA), and not possessing a significantly populated catchment hinterland means that it's heavily disadvantaged to the gain of LAX and SFO, which are frequently "close enough", but serve much larger metropolitan areas. In the US, where most passenger traffic is domestic, this works out to LAX or SFO being the first choice for a benefit-maximizing west coast hub. Nearby Vancouver in Canada essentially acts as Canada's LAX, so the advantages are multiplied for them -- but Canada's smaller domestic population means the numbers are correspondingly scaled down. The US' large domestic aviation market also means that flyers quite expect to be flown to a directional hub that serves flights to a particular part of the world first. Towards Brazil, this is often a big hub on the Atlantic seaboard: Miami, New York, Atlanta, or Houston. [1] In Brazil, the primary international airport is GRU out of São Paulo, instead of Rio. They're less than 350 km apart. You'll probably find direct flights to GRU instead. Quantas flies from Sydney to Santiago, which is a comparable distance to GRU but doesn't need to reach as southerly of a latitude. Plotting distances from a "typical" busy continental European airport like Paris to major hubs in the US, it can be seen [2] that it's advantageous to "collect" passengers towards busy Chicago and New York, utilizing spare domestic capacity to shorten the international leg: Seattle's positioning is awkward here. Flying from the US to a busy Asia/Pacific destination like Hong Kong, Seattle is oriented favorably [3] to catch some traffic from the middle of the US and serve as a directional hub, but still has to compete with LAX and SFO. Flying from Sydney to the US, LAX and SFO are the closest, and the entire country lies conveniently behind them [4]. [1] http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=GRU-MIA%0D%0AGRU-JFK%0D%0AGRU-HOU%0D%0AGRU-CDG%0D%0AGRU-LAX%0D%0AGRU-SEA%0D%0AGRU-DXB%0D%0AGRU-SCL-SYD%0D%0AGRU-SYD&MS=wls&MP=a&DU=km http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=GRU-MIA%0D%0AGRU-JFK%0D%0AGRU-H... [2] http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=CDG-JFK%0D%0ACDG-ORD%0D%0ACDG-ATL%0D%0ACDG-DFW%0D%0ACDG-DEN%0D%0ACDG-SEA%0D%0ACDG-SLC%0D%0ACDG-SFO%0D%0ACDG-LAX&PM=b%3Adisc7%2B%22%25U%2210&MS=wls&MP=a&DU=km http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=CDG-JFK%0D%0ACDG-ORD%0D%0ACDG-A... [3] http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=HKG-SEA%0D%0AHKG-LAX%0D%0AHKG-SFO%0D%0AHKG-ORD%0D%0AHKG-DFW%0D%0AHKG-JFK&PM=b%3Adisc7%2B%22%25U%2210&MS=wls&MP=a&DU=km http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=HKG-SEA%0D%0AHKG-LAX%0D%0AHKG-S... [4] http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SYD-DXB%0D%0ASYD-HKG%0D%0ASYD-LAX%0D%0ASYD-SFO%0D%0ASYD-SEA%0D%0ASYD-JFK%0D%0ASYD-ORD%0D%0ASYD-DFW%0D%0ASYD-LHR%0D%0ASYD-GRU%0D%0ASYD-SCL&PM=b%3Adisc7%2B%22%25U%2210&MS=wls&MP=a&DU=km http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SYD-DXB%0D%0ASYD-HKG%0D%0ASYD-L...

by leipert 10y ago

niftich 10y ago

In practice, Seattle's location in one particular corner of the continental US, anchoring a metropolitan area that's "only" 13th in population (by CSA), and not possessing a significantly populated catchment hinterland means that it's heavily disadvantaged to the gain of LAX and SFO, which are frequently "close enough", but serve much larger metropolitan areas. In the US, where most passenger traffic is domestic, this works out to LAX or SFO being the first choice for a benefit-maximizing west coast hub. Nearby Vancouver in Canada essentially acts as Canada's LAX, so the advantages are multiplied for them -- but Canada's smaller domestic population means the numbers are correspondingly scaled down. The US' large domestic aviation market also means that flyers quite expect to be flown to a directional hub that serves flights to a particular part of the world first. Towards Brazil, this is often a big hub on the Atlantic seaboard: Miami, New York, Atlanta, or Houston. [1] In Brazil, the primary international airport is GRU out of São Paulo, instead of Rio. They're less than 350 km apart. You'll probably find direct flights to GRU instead. Quantas flies from Sydney to Santiago, which is a comparable distance to GRU but doesn't need to reach as southerly of a latitude. Plotting distances from a "typical" busy continental European airport like Paris to major hubs in the US, it can be seen [2] that it's advantageous to "collect" passengers towards busy Chicago and New York, utilizing spare domestic capacity to shorten the international leg: Seattle's positioning is awkward here. Flying from the US to a busy Asia/Pacific destination like Hong Kong, Seattle is oriented favorably [3] to catch some traffic from the middle of the US and serve as a directional hub, but still has to compete with LAX and SFO. Flying from Sydney to the US, LAX and SFO are the closest, and the entire country lies conveniently behind them [4]. [1] http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=GRU-MIA%0D%0AGRU-JFK%0D%0AGRU-HOU%0D%0AGRU-CDG%0D%0AGRU-LAX%0D%0AGRU-SEA%0D%0AGRU-DXB%0D%0AGRU-SCL-SYD%0D%0AGRU-SYD&MS=wls&MP=a&DU=km http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=GRU-MIA%0D%0AGRU-JFK%0D%0AGRU-H... [2] http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=CDG-JFK%0D%0ACDG-ORD%0D%0ACDG-ATL%0D%0ACDG-DFW%0D%0ACDG-DEN%0D%0ACDG-SEA%0D%0ACDG-SLC%0D%0ACDG-SFO%0D%0ACDG-LAX&PM=b%3Adisc7%2B%22%25U%2210&MS=wls&MP=a&DU=km http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=CDG-JFK%0D%0ACDG-ORD%0D%0ACDG-A... [3] http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=HKG-SEA%0D%0AHKG-LAX%0D%0AHKG-SFO%0D%0AHKG-ORD%0D%0AHKG-DFW%0D%0AHKG-JFK&PM=b%3Adisc7%2B%22%25U%2210&MS=wls&MP=a&DU=km http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=HKG-SEA%0D%0AHKG-LAX%0D%0AHKG-S... [4] http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SYD-DXB%0D%0ASYD-HKG%0D%0ASYD-LAX%0D%0ASYD-SFO%0D%0ASYD-SEA%0D%0ASYD-JFK%0D%0ASYD-ORD%0D%0ASYD-DFW%0D%0ASYD-LHR%0D%0ASYD-GRU%0D%0ASYD-SCL&PM=b%3Adisc7%2B%22%25U%2210&MS=wls&MP=a&DU=km http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SYD-DXB%0D%0ASYD-HKG%0D%0ASYD-L...