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There's a BBC Horizon episodes with two identical twins, one goes for the low fat diet and the other for low carb diet to test which one is worse. http://www.b

There's a BBC Horizon episodes with two identical twins, one goes for the low fat diet and the other for low carb diet to test which one is worse. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03t8r4h http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03t8r4h http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1amh2t_bbc-horizon-sugar-v-fat-h264-1280x720-aac-rmac_lifestyle http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1amh2t_bbc-horizon-sugar-v...

agumonkey 10y ago
Finally, I have something worth watching with my soda can.
mkaziz 10y ago
Do you have a quick synopsis of what happens?
- Danihan 10y ago
  http://www.drbriffa.com/2014/01/30/my-take-on-the-horizon-documentary-sugar-v-fat/ http://www.drbriffa.com/2014/01/30/my-take-on-the-horizon-do...
- praveenster 10y ago
  At time mark 57:20 in the DailyMotion video they say that it is neither of them individually but the combination of fat and sugar that is the problem.
  - ThrustVectoring 10y ago
    How does that follow? If you have a below-average diet and replace foods from it, you're likely to do better simply due to regression to the mean. You could replace a shitty diet with one with different foods but the same macronutrient distribution and likely end up improving things.
Danihan 10y ago
Spoil it for me, I don't have time to watch at work.. Also, what kind of fat? Saturated fats are very stable and easily used by the body -- in my opinion they have very very different health effects compared to cheap, polyunsaturated fats.
- bigbugbag 10y ago
  Eat a balanced diet, exercise is important and the brain has a very hard time resisting or stopping eating when fat and sugar are combined, 50/50 ratio being the most effective combination. So better eat sugar and fat separated.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
blakesterz 10y ago
I skipped to the last few minutes of that, they seem to do a nice summary... "avoid processed foods" "All faddish diets are wrong and exercise is important" "the combination of fat and sugar is bad" (not just one or the other but foods full of both like donuts are bad)
- tiglionabbit 10y ago
  I thought eating fat with sugar was better than eating sugar alone since the fat slowed down the absorption of the sugar, thus dampening the insulin response.
  - milesvp 10y ago
    Yeah, I'm not sure how to model the fat+sugar problem I keep hearing whispers of. I know from the research I did with my wife's gestational diabetes is that the glycemic index of a food went down if you added just about any other food volume that with a lower glycemic index. The best example I found was that toast is like the worst possible food you can eat in terms of GI, it was higher than anything but pure glucose . But toast with jam, actually had a lower GI, since sucrose has ~half the GI of glucose (makes sense since sucrose is glucose+fructose, and fructose requires time for the liver to process). Toast with butter was even better, since butter fat has 0 GI. I still don't know how much I trust the claims that fat+sugar is particularly bad, but I suspect it may have to do with some kind of second order insulin response. Like, the presence of triglycerides in the blood cause fat cells to be more likely to respond to insulin, storing fat, instead of releasing it. I dunno. Also keep in mind GI is falling out of fashion as a key indicator. Glycemic Load seems to be more indicative of poor health indicators. That is to say, that the area under the curve is potentially more important than the max height of the curve. I'd say limiting both is probably important as well. I also highly suspect that the slope of the curve is very important in how we perceive hunger, which is why we tend to feel hungry shortly after eating foods with fast carbs... FWIW, at the end of the day, in order to keep my wife healthy, we ended up giving up fast carbs, and she had to keep her carb count low in general. Her basic formula for a snack was to add the grams of fat+ grams of protein, and if that was bigger than the grams of carbs it was safe to eat. Sorry I don't have links to this stuff, this was like 5 years ago, and I'm not sure if I ever saved those bookmarks. I can say it was really hard to find credible data sets. There didn't seem to be anything from America (draw your own conclusions :) ), most of everything I found was published datasets from Australia and New Zealand. Also, don't take this for anything other than anecdata, do your own research. You'll find very quickly a lot of really bad nutrition information. I had to plow through most of it, and might have given up if it wasn't for my pregnant wife, coupled with a friend with a digital signal processing background pointing out engineering problems with most of the current thoughts on controlling diabetic blood sugar levels.
loader 10y ago
These twins also did one on Alcohol (Casual but Consistent vs Binging) which was pretty interesting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05wdfhk http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05wdfhk
- kannan 10y ago
  The episode isn't currently available, do you know what was the outcome of the experiment?
  - ramchip 10y ago
    I found this: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32798569 http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32798569
  - kbenson 10y ago
    I found this[1], which summarizes nicely. Basically, they are almost equally as bad for your liver, and that was with one of them taking 21 shots of vodka[2] once a week, which left him insensible, and actually in a dangerous medical state. 1: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32798569 http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32798569 2: I assume measured to 25ml which is the low end of single shot size, to be in line with the standard units of alcohol they mentioned.
  - loader 10y ago
    There's always this method: https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/11952358/BBC.Horizon.2015.Is.Binge.Drinking.Really.That.Bad.PDTV.x264.AAC https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/11952358/BBC.Horizon.2015.I...
dlsso 10y ago
Do they take cholesterol tests at the start and end? I skimmed a little but didn't see it. That's the only thing I'd really be interested in.
crusso 10y ago
That episode is no longer available, but I remember it when it was first released. I wasn't at all impressed with the depth of the research they did before starting their experiment, their ability to stick to their diets, and their general understanding and approach to the potential science they could have been doing. The whole thing was a superficial puff piece that you can't take seriously when evaluating something as important as health.

agumonkey 10y ago

Finally, I have something worth watching with my soda can.

mkaziz 10y ago

Do you have a quick synopsis of what happens?

Danihan 10y ago
http://www.drbriffa.com/2014/01/30/my-take-on-the-horizon-documentary-sugar-v-fat/ http://www.drbriffa.com/2014/01/30/my-take-on-the-horizon-do...
praveenster 10y ago
At time mark 57:20 in the DailyMotion video they say that it is neither of them individually but the combination of fat and sugar that is the problem.
- ThrustVectoring 10y ago
  How does that follow? If you have a below-average diet and replace foods from it, you're likely to do better simply due to regression to the mean. You could replace a shitty diet with one with different foods but the same macronutrient distribution and likely end up improving things.

Danihan 10y ago

Spoil it for me, I don't have time to watch at work.. Also, what kind of fat? Saturated fats are very stable and easily used by the body -- in my opinion they have very very different health effects compared to cheap, polyunsaturated fats.

bigbugbag 10y ago
Eat a balanced diet, exercise is important and the brain has a very hard time resisting or stopping eating when fat and sugar are combined, 50/50 ratio being the most effective combination. So better eat sugar and fat separated.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

blakesterz 10y ago

I skipped to the last few minutes of that, they seem to do a nice summary... "avoid processed foods" "All faddish diets are wrong and exercise is important" "the combination of fat and sugar is bad" (not just one or the other but foods full of both like donuts are bad)

tiglionabbit 10y ago
I thought eating fat with sugar was better than eating sugar alone since the fat slowed down the absorption of the sugar, thus dampening the insulin response.
- milesvp 10y ago
  Yeah, I'm not sure how to model the fat+sugar problem I keep hearing whispers of. I know from the research I did with my wife's gestational diabetes is that the glycemic index of a food went down if you added just about any other food volume that with a lower glycemic index. The best example I found was that toast is like the worst possible food you can eat in terms of GI, it was higher than anything but pure glucose . But toast with jam, actually had a lower GI, since sucrose has ~half the GI of glucose (makes sense since sucrose is glucose+fructose, and fructose requires time for the liver to process). Toast with butter was even better, since butter fat has 0 GI. I still don't know how much I trust the claims that fat+sugar is particularly bad, but I suspect it may have to do with some kind of second order insulin response. Like, the presence of triglycerides in the blood cause fat cells to be more likely to respond to insulin, storing fat, instead of releasing it. I dunno. Also keep in mind GI is falling out of fashion as a key indicator. Glycemic Load seems to be more indicative of poor health indicators. That is to say, that the area under the curve is potentially more important than the max height of the curve. I'd say limiting both is probably important as well. I also highly suspect that the slope of the curve is very important in how we perceive hunger, which is why we tend to feel hungry shortly after eating foods with fast carbs... FWIW, at the end of the day, in order to keep my wife healthy, we ended up giving up fast carbs, and she had to keep her carb count low in general. Her basic formula for a snack was to add the grams of fat+ grams of protein, and if that was bigger than the grams of carbs it was safe to eat. Sorry I don't have links to this stuff, this was like 5 years ago, and I'm not sure if I ever saved those bookmarks. I can say it was really hard to find credible data sets. There didn't seem to be anything from America (draw your own conclusions :) ), most of everything I found was published datasets from Australia and New Zealand. Also, don't take this for anything other than anecdata, do your own research. You'll find very quickly a lot of really bad nutrition information. I had to plow through most of it, and might have given up if it wasn't for my pregnant wife, coupled with a friend with a digital signal processing background pointing out engineering problems with most of the current thoughts on controlling diabetic blood sugar levels.

loader 10y ago

These twins also did one on Alcohol (Casual but Consistent vs Binging) which was pretty interesting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05wdfhk http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05wdfhk

kannan 10y ago
The episode isn't currently available, do you know what was the outcome of the experiment?
- ramchip 10y ago
  I found this: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32798569 http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32798569
- kbenson 10y ago
  I found this[1], which summarizes nicely. Basically, they are almost equally as bad for your liver, and that was with one of them taking 21 shots of vodka[2] once a week, which left him insensible, and actually in a dangerous medical state. 1: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32798569 http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32798569 2: I assume measured to 25ml which is the low end of single shot size, to be in line with the standard units of alcohol they mentioned.
- loader 10y ago
  There's always this method: https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/11952358/BBC.Horizon.2015.Is.Binge.Drinking.Really.That.Bad.PDTV.x264.AAC https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/11952358/BBC.Horizon.2015.I...

dlsso 10y ago

Do they take cholesterol tests at the start and end? I skimmed a little but didn't see it. That's the only thing I'd really be interested in.

crusso 10y ago

That episode is no longer available, but I remember it when it was first released. I wasn't at all impressed with the depth of the research they did before starting their experiment, their ability to stick to their diets, and their general understanding and approach to the potential science they could have been doing. The whole thing was a superficial puff piece that you can't take seriously when evaluating something as important as health.