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Someone explain why I should fear ISPs more than Google? I can at use Sonic.net for privacy. I can't realistically opt out of Google. The lines seem arbitrary.

by jquery 10y ago

joshuata 10y ago
My worry is something like Verizon's "super-cookies"[1]. You can block requests to known tracking websites relatively effectively, but if tracking can be added outside your network there is no possible way to fight it. [1]: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/verizon-x-uidh https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/verizon-x-uidh
michael_h 10y ago
Why can't you opt out of Google?
tonyztan 10y ago
You can choose not to use Google (and use DuckDuckGo or Startpage instead). However in most places in the U.S., you don't get many choices for ISP. There is no meaningful competition. The ISP you mentioned, Sonic.net, is only available in a few select locations.
angryasian 10y ago
what.. this doesn't make any sense and I don't know what Google has anything to do with this. Why can't you opt out of google ? 1. ISP monitor all your internet traffic. Google can only have access to what google services you opt in to use. 2. At this time we don't know how the ISP's will sell your internet history whether it be individual or in aggregate, but google doesn't sell your information. 3. I trust google's security more than ISPs
- Silhouette 10y ago
  Google don't just have access to what you opt in to use. They also have access to whatever anyone else you communicate with effectively opts in to use on your behalf. For example, even if you don't want to give Google any data at all, there is a very high chance that they already have a lot of the emails you send via one of the other parties, and a fair chance that you won't even know it's happening unless you look at the MX records for their domain or something along those lines. This is, IMHO, one of the biggest unresolved ethical issues with data protection and privacy today. On the one hand, it would be a great burden on society to stop everyone from using any third party services for anything involving personal data about someone else. On the other hand, when those services are no longer neutral and will process any data they receive for other purposes without the informed consent of some of the data subjects, that's a dubious practice at best. Another example is a social network's mobile app uploading your phone's entire contacts list, and just like that they've probably got a unique personal ID and a great deal of networking information about everyone on that list.
  - angryasian 10y ago
    while i don't disagree, you still have the option of not responding. Also I think what you mention is more of an issue with integrating systems with open standards. The alternative is using a closed system that only belongs to one vendor or revising the open standard to support privacy

Someone explain why I should fear ISPs more than Google? I can at use Sonic.net for privacy. I can't realistically opt out of Google. The lines seem arbitrary.

by jquery 10y ago

Someone explain why I should fear ISPs more than Google? I can at use Sonic.net for privacy. I can't realistically opt out of Google. The lines seem arbitrary.

joshuata 10y ago

My worry is something like Verizon's "super-cookies"[1]. You can block requests to known tracking websites relatively effectively, but if tracking can be added outside your network there is no possible way to fight it. [1]: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/verizon-x-uidh https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/verizon-x-uidh

michael_h 10y ago

Why can't you opt out of Google?

tonyztan 10y ago

You can choose not to use Google (and use DuckDuckGo or Startpage instead). However in most places in the U.S., you don't get many choices for ISP. There is no meaningful competition. The ISP you mentioned, Sonic.net, is only available in a few select locations.

angryasian 10y ago

what.. this doesn't make any sense and I don't know what Google has anything to do with this. Why can't you opt out of google ? 1. ISP monitor all your internet traffic. Google can only have access to what google services you opt in to use. 2. At this time we don't know how the ISP's will sell your internet history whether it be individual or in aggregate, but google doesn't sell your information. 3. I trust google's security more than ISPs

Silhouette 10y ago
Google don't just have access to what you opt in to use. They also have access to whatever anyone else you communicate with effectively opts in to use on your behalf. For example, even if you don't want to give Google any data at all, there is a very high chance that they already have a lot of the emails you send via one of the other parties, and a fair chance that you won't even know it's happening unless you look at the MX records for their domain or something along those lines. This is, IMHO, one of the biggest unresolved ethical issues with data protection and privacy today. On the one hand, it would be a great burden on society to stop everyone from using any third party services for anything involving personal data about someone else. On the other hand, when those services are no longer neutral and will process any data they receive for other purposes without the informed consent of some of the data subjects, that's a dubious practice at best. Another example is a social network's mobile app uploading your phone's entire contacts list, and just like that they've probably got a unique personal ID and a great deal of networking information about everyone on that list.
- angryasian 10y ago
  while i don't disagree, you still have the option of not responding. Also I think what you mention is more of an issue with integrating systems with open standards. The alternative is using a closed system that only belongs to one vendor or revising the open standard to support privacy